WI Independent states first in constitution

NapoleonXIV

Banned
WI the FF had written in the Constitution that new Territories, once they had enough people, first became autonomous regions; and then voted on whether to become States within the US or actual independent nations on their own?

What would happen to US History?

Which states would now be nations?
 
WI the FF had written in the Constitution that new Territories, once they had enough people, first became autonomous regions; and then voted on whether to become States within the US or actual independent nations on their own?

What would happen to US History?

Which states would now be nations?

Which states would be likely to vote not joining the US?
 
I guess such an idea would pertain to the possibility of growing beyond the Mississippi. Upon independence the US received all that land from Britain so technically no independent nations could rise between the Mississippi and the Appalachians.

In one sense you are just muddling ATLs that have an independent Texas, California and Deseret and probably Alaska - tho that may just be kept at territorial status to keep any possibility of independence from happening.

One 'state' that probably wouldn't be a state would be Oklahoma or any other indian nation.
 
WI the FF had written in the Constitution that new Territories, once they had enough people, first became autonomous regions; and then voted on whether to become States within the US or actual independent nations on their own?
Why on earth would they give up US land? And your scenario allows a territory to write ... 'interesting' ... bits into their constitutions and the Feds don't get any say about it. Hi, we the territory of Utah have Established polygamy, we're becoming a state tomorrow. Hi we're the Territory of Hawai'i We're becoming the Royal Kingdom state tomorrow. etc. Hi, we're the Territory of Dakota. No palefaces allowed. We're becoming a state.

See the problem?
 
Why on earth would they give up US land? And your scenario allows a territory to write ... 'interesting' ... bits into their constitutions and the Feds don't get any say about it. Hi, we the territory of Utah have Established polygamy, we're becoming a state tomorrow. Hi we're the Territory of Hawai'i We're becoming the Royal Kingdom state tomorrow. etc. Hi, we're the Territory of Dakota. No palefaces allowed. We're becoming a state.

See the problem?

Well, I presume this alternate federal arrangement would require, as does OTL, that to become a state, territories would have to enact constitutions which mirror the US one, so no royal Hawaiian monarchies or Mormon theocracies allowed.

The real problem with this scheme is that these "autonomous" regions would be up for grabs by France, Spain/Mexico, Britain, or even Russia. Britain, for example could attempt to flood all the transappalachian territories with loyalists, create a pro-British majority which votes for independence, and effectively undue the territorial settlements in the Treaty of Paris. This would be, from the US perspective a big mistake, and probably ensue the USA remained a small and insignificant enclave on the eastern margins of a North American dominated by others.
 
Well, I presume this alternate federal arrangement would require, as does OTL, that to become a state, territories would have to enact constitutions which mirror the US one, so no royal Hawaiian monarchies or Mormon theocracies allowed.
Umm... OK, it is true that the OTL Constitution says something like 'a republican form of government' is required. So, yes, a Hawai'ian monarchy would be out. Utah, however, could have an elected republican form of government that specifically allows polygamy, etc. If the decision is the TERRITORY's whether to become a state, then the Feds have lost all bargaining power. IOTL, they could (and regularly did) say: Well, we're all for you becoming a state, but here's a laundry list of things you've got to change first.
 
A stipulation like that would provide for many interesting scenarios but for the most part probably wouldn't affect the westward expansion of the US. While it seems that Texas would remain independent, we volunteered to join the US and I think we petitioned 2 or 3 times to get in. In the end it was more advantageous for us to allign with the US and recieve a boon economicaly and militarily and the same would eb true for Nebraska, Colorado, Washington, Arizona, etc.

California would probably give independence a shot but in the end would join the US for the same reasons as Texas and if they didn't the US would bully them into the union since Cali was the ultimate goal of Manifest Destiny and the US was not to be denied, especially once gold was disocvered there.

The only state that might remain independent would be Utah because of the Mormon religion, however I could see them joining the US in the 1900's when people became much more mellower about different religions. Even if they did stay independent it wouldn't affect the US much other than the fact Colorado and New Mexico would gain more ski resort traffic and the New Orleans Jazz Bball team would have relocated somewhere else...
 
Ameriwankers lose, yay! Oh wait, I already hear them screaming "No one wants to get out of the glorious, awesome, nations that is is the USA!!11111". Bastards. :p
Depending on the time, many states might pull out, in the west. The farmer rebels... etc. etc. etc. Interesting possibilities.
 
Umm... OK, it is true that the OTL Constitution says something like 'a republican form of government' is required. So, yes, a Hawai'ian monarchy would be out. Utah, however, could have an elected republican form of government that specifically allows polygamy, etc. If the decision is the TERRITORY's whether to become a state, then the Feds have lost all bargaining power. IOTL, they could (and regularly did) say: Well, we're all for you becoming a state, but here's a laundry list of things you've got to change first.

You're missing the whole point of the original post. He's not saying that the Feds give up the final say. He's saying that, after being a territory, the area becomes autonomous and then has to choose between applying for statehood or going its own way.
 
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