I'll admit it, I don't know much of the Napoleonic Wars but what if an independent Polish state had been established during the Congress of Vienna? How could we get an independent Poland plausibly?
I'll admit it, I don't know much of the Napoleonic Wars but what if an independent Polish state had been established during the Congress of Vienna? How could we get an independent Poland plausibly?
Wasn't the Grand Duchy of Warsaw pretty much just an autonomous province in Russia? I was referring to a separate Polish state after the Napoleonic Wars.So your not counting the Grand Duchy of Warsaw? I mean I know it was in a dynastic alliance with Saxony, which was under the control of the Federation of the Rhine, but it was basically independent. Or are you referring to a separate Polish state following the Napoleonic Wars?
The Grand Duchy of Warsaw was the Napoleonic French-allied state created for Frederick Augustus of Saxony. Congress Poland was the semi-autonomous Polish state that got allocated to Russia after the Congress of Vienna.Wasn't the Grand Duchy of Warsaw pretty much just an autonomous province in Russia? I was referring to a separate Polish state after the Napoleonic Wars.
And it was Duchy of Warsaw , not Grand Duchy.The Grand Duchy of Warsaw was the Napoleonic French-allied state created for Frederick Augustus of Saxony. Congress Poland was the semi-autonomous Polish state that got allocated to Russia after the Congress of Vienna.
Ah, I apologize - I got the two mixed up! Anyway, let's say an independent Polish state is established in 1815 - what happens next?The Grand Duchy of Warsaw was the Napoleonic French-allied state created for Frederick Augustus of Saxony. Congress Poland was the semi-autonomous Polish state that got allocated to Russia after the Congress of Vienna.
Kingdom of Poland in Vienna Congress was in theory independent, only in personal union with Russia. If you want Poland fully indepedent, i'm afraid it's not very possible. Powers and especially Russia would be relucant to give Poland more territory than OTL Congress Kingdom/Duchy of Warsaw. And with such borders Poland would be economically dependant either from Russia or Prussia. Your best bet would be Polish-Prussian union (that would make Poles almost half of population in such a Kingdom if it had all Prussian and Austrian partitions) or Polish victory in 1831 which is not ASB but really hard and still would leave Poland in bad position if it wouldn't get sea access through Courland.
Wasn't the Grand Duchy of Warsaw pretty much just an autonomous province in Russia? I was referring to a separate Polish state after the Napoleonic Wars.
Is there anyway we could get the Kingdom of Poland to remain independent?No, the Duchy of Warsaw (not a "Grand Duchy") was not Russian province. It was an independent state ruled, as was said, by Saxon dynasty. Neither was Kingdom of Poland established in 1815 Russian province: it was, until 1832, an independent state connected with Russian Empire by a personal union.
It would take somebody different from Nicholas I on the Russian side and more realistic people on the Polish side.Is there anyway we could get the Kingdom of Poland to remain independent?
Who could take the place of this OTL figures?It would take somebody different from Nicholas I on the Russian side and more realistic people on the Polish side.
Victory in November Uprising (there small chances), but that wouldn't guarantee that Poland remains independent for long. Fully indepedent state with Kingdom of Poland borders would be economically dependant from bigger and hostile neighbours. Maybe only Austria could be friendly in hope to get Habsburg on another throne.Is there anyway we could get the Kingdom of Poland to remain independent?
How could we get a successful November Uprising? Would effects would a Hapsburg King have on Poland?Victory in November Uprising (there small chances), but that wouldn't guarantee that Poland remains independent for long. Fully indepedent state with Kingdom of Poland borders would be economically dependant from bigger and hostile neighbours. Maybe only Austria could be friendly in hope to get Habsburg on another throne.
Or 1812 Russian Campaign is more disastrous for Polish forces participating in it. So in 1830 there are less living veterans of Napoleonic Wars in Poland, that means there are more jobs in administration and army for young frustrates like Wysocki (so they are no frustrated enough to decide to start uprising and die as martyrs).It would take somebody different from Nicholas I on the Russian side and more realistic people on the Polish side.
What effects will this have on an independent Polish kingdom?Or 1812 Russian Campaign is more disastrous for Polish forces participating in it. So in 1830 there are less living veterans of Napoleonic Wars in Poland, that means there are more jobs in administration and army for young frustrates like Wysocki (so they are no frustrated enough to decide to start uprising and die as martyrs).
Victory in Polish-Russian war which resulted from it, less leadership changes and no trying to assasinate Constantine, maybe even putting him on the throne. I don't know if we could even get Habsburg King but that surely would be aim of Austrian policy (from PLC times they wanted that throne). And one important thing, independent Poland means putting Prussia into Russian orbit.How could we get a successful November Uprising? Would effects would a Hapsburg King have on Poland?
What effects will this have on an independent Polish kingdom?