WI: Independent East Prussia?

How plausible is it for this to happen? Specifically in a Weimar - succeeds type world? Or, alternately, the Socialists manage to piss off lots of conservatives after a Germany - victorious in WWI scenario, and they say "BYE!" and take East Prussia and the to - be - named 'Baltic Duchies' with them?
 
Well East Prussia was the most conservative part of Weimar Germany so I doubt that the Socialists would do that.
 
Well East Prussia was the most conservative part of Weimar Germany so I doubt that the Socialists would do that.

Correct, East-Elbian conservativism was very strong and often of the more extreme kinds, with only Königsberg Stadt occasionally returning a non-conservative member to the Reichstag (even then it was a Right Liberal).

The problem is, Ostpreußen is surrounded by hostiles without many resources and with a significant minority in some areas of the same ethnicity as one of the hostiles.

I think it's a no-goer.
 
This only seems possible immediately after World War I, but even then, it's unlikely because it would fuel the very irredentism the Entente will have wanted to avoid in the peace terms. All the independent East Prussia does is increases German/Polish hostility.

If a state is set up there after World War II, said state will not be German, but Jewish and likely renamed anyway.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Correct, East-Elbian conservativism was very strong and often of the more extreme kinds, with only Königsberg Stadt occasionally returning a non-conservative member to the Reichstag (even then it was a Right Liberal).

The problem is, Ostpreußen is surrounded by hostiles without many resources and with a significant minority in some areas of the same ethnicity as one of the hostiles.

I think it's a no-goer.

The Slavs of East Prussia was so loyal to the German state that it was ridiculous, several areas with Masurians majority almost had 100% vote to stay in Germany.
I agree that East Prussia going red are extremely unlikely.

As for how East Prussia would function as a independent state, they had a modern economy at the time, but it was mostly based on the production of agricultural products. While lacking mineral wealth, East Prussia do have the benefit of rich soil and a well developed agricultural industry.
In size it was a little smaller than Denmark and had a similar sized population. So I'm going to say it's as viable as Denmark. It will likely suffer economical the first decade, we will likely also see attempts to set up local industry (with variable succes).
 
Well, we can always fall back on the idea that the rest of Germany goes red and East Prussia manages to stay white due to its separation.
 

Valdemar II

Banned
Well, we can always fall back on the idea that the rest of Germany goes red and East Prussia manages to stay white due to its separation.

That's a quite interesting case, because of the numbe of refugees it would receive. Likely enough to kickstart its secondary sector.
 
I think the OP meant that Germany goes red, then Ostpreussen splits off along with the 'Baltic Duchies' in a CP Victory scenario. But East Prussia breaking off to keep 'white' is pretty much just the same. Now, whether this would work or not is the question...
 
Originally posted by Magnificate
Well, we can always fall back on the idea that the rest of Germany goes red and East Prussia manages to stay white due to its separation.

If it is a CP victory scenario, East Prussia is not separated from the rest of Germany - the Corridor, Danzig, etc. are still German. Therefore I do not believe that it is possible for East Prussia to go independent in case of German victory in WWI.
However if Germany lost... Imagine that the Kaiser refuses to abdicate and with some loyal army units, Prussian aristocrats etc. withdraws to East Prussia. Of course he is unable to continue the war, but he can not accept Germany as a republic. Moreover, he believes that sooner or later the republic will fall and German people will ask him (or his son) to return to power. So he waits...
Meanwhile, republican Germany finds a perfect scapegoat – the Kaiser. He and his aristocrats ruled Imperial Germany so they are responsible for loosing the war, milions of dead, territorial losses and all the suffering German people had to endure. There is no myth of the Dolchstoss or rather it is transformed into a leftist version – the German soldiers fought bravely, but all their sacrifices were wasted by the incompetent aristocratic generals and the Kaiser himself. Some Austrian corporal keeps shouting something about the Jews, but almost nobody listens to him.
The Allies are actually willing to allow for that situation to last. Divided Germany is weaker, which is good from French POV. The British are not so happy about it, but eventually they prefer to keep all German militarists safely isolated and unable to create any major troubles (or so they think). Moreover, the Allies are tired of war and will not send their armies to storm quite well fortified East Prussia.
With time, German Republic is getting better: German aristocrats, who followed the Kaiser are declared traitors and anything theirs that remained in Germany is confiscated and used to pay war reparations. Republican Germany is not exactly fond of Poland, but since nobody there wants the old regime back, it is possible to make some kind of deal with Warsaw, since Poland and German Republic have a common enemy. Poland promises to treat Polish Germans well and keeps its word since Poles too are worried about Prussia. In 1920, when Poles fight the Soviets, Prussian forces prepare to occupy Danzig and rest of the Corridor. It doesn't happen, however – the Kaiser did not want to cooperate with the communists nad waited for Poland to fall before sending his troops to protect the people from the bolsheviks. When Poland started wining the war, it was too late – a joint British-French naval and ground force secured Danzig – the Allies do not want the Kaiser to become too strong.
Eventually, we have Republican Germany in better political and economic situation, ruled by center and left parties. Polish-German relations are not very cordial, but there is some level of understanding and no open political or economical conflict (e.g. no customs war). Militaristic, aristocratic Prussia is considered the Bad Guy of Europe and is tolerated only as a potential ally against the USSR. The NSDAP desintegrates in late 1920s.
 
Actually, there might well be a niche for the NSDAP in "Ostprueßen", it's going to be a very poor country, massively agricultural with only timber and linen as industries. Given that it had before been represented by such charmers as the Christlich-Sozialen Partei, the NSDAP might be able to survive in whatever limited politics the state as the "left wing" party. Where better to survive that a statelet founded on the Dolchstoßlegende?

I assume that it will keep the Memelland, I can't see a Lithuanian takeover in 1920 being unopposed by the Junkers.
 
IIRC the nazis were not actually that fond of German aristocrats, and the aristocrats were not so fond of the nazis. Besides, if the Kaiser hears they are National-Socialists he might explode.
And yes, Prussia keeps the Memelland.
 
IIRC the nazis were not actually that fond of German aristocrats, and the aristocrats were not so fond of the nazis. Besides, if the Kaiser hears they are National-Socialists he might explode.
And yes, Prussia keeps the Memelland.

Well, they became more fond of each other, especially when the aristos realised that Adolf didn't mean that socialism bit.

Assuming that some form Kaiserreich-style democracy has survived in Ostpreußen - there's going to be very few Junkers (plus I suppose emigres from Weimar Germany) and lots and lots of peasants who are getting poorer, the NSDAP might have a message they like.
 
Maybe you're right. OTOH they would have had no strength to do much about it - East Prussia has weak industry, no natural resources and is surrounded by hostile countries (Poland, Lithuania).
 
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