WI in 1917 french troops mutiny causing a collapse in the western front

So as we know in 1917 the "great" french geenral Nivelle sent a force of over a milion french soldiers against a german force half that size. As we know it ended in catastrophy with over 250000 men were killed or wounded on the french side. The army was on the verge of wholesale mutiny. So say the French govt is unable to pull the plug fast enough and Neville remains in charge and more french troops die leading to a mutiny. How does this effect WWI with the entire french army launching a wholesale mutiny against the govt. How much longer can the germans last?
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Most of the French troops involved in the mutiny simply refused to attack. They still held their own lines and would have fought had the Germans launched an offensive of their own.
 
So as we know in 1917 the "great" french geenral Nivelle sent a force of over a milion french soldiers against a german force half that size. As we know it ended in catastrophy with over 250000 men were killed or wounded on the french side. The army was on the verge of wholesale mutiny. So say the French govt is unable to pull the plug fast enough and Neville remains in charge and more french troops die leading to a mutiny. How does this effect WWI with the entire french army launching a wholesale mutiny against the govt. How much longer can the germans last?

at least until 11 november 1918.

but with france and russia out of the war it's effectively over. italy will be really buisy trying to get away with a status quo.
 

BlondieBC

Banned
So as we know in 1917 the "great" french geenral Nivelle sent a force of over a milion french soldiers against a german force half that size. As we know it ended in catastrophy with over 250000 men were killed or wounded on the french side. The army was on the verge of wholesale mutiny. So say the French govt is unable to pull the plug fast enough and Neville remains in charge and more french troops die leading to a mutiny. How does this effect WWI with the entire french army launching a wholesale mutiny against the govt. How much longer can the germans last?

If their is a full mutiny, not just a "strike against attack orders", then the French will collapse in 1917. The best comparison is the Italian battle where their were 300K POW, 300K deserters. The Italian fell back, but eventually reorganized.

Germany had limited manpower. As the French troops started to mutiny, the German Army commanders would launch division and corp size attacks that would punch through the emptying french lines. But the Germans will run out of supplies within 50 miles of advance, and the UK will ship troop to try to cover key defensive locations. And the Germans rebuilt supplies for the second big advance, the combination of UK, some rallied French lines, and American units rush to Europe probably stabilize the front. Now the interesting side effects is does the Entente make a reasonable peace offer to the CP? And does France partially collapsing help A-H stay in the war? And how does this impact Russia? Will they make an earlier peace?
 

BlondieBC

Banned
Attached is rough map, picture is worth thousand words. Purple is a guess of the amount of advance. I think the UK would reinforce the French lines from North to South, and the French would try to shorten the lines so fewer units are needed. The Germans will make "huge" gains, but I am not sure they make much difference.

Now if the Mutiny happens at the same time a major offensive is planned such as Verdun or the Spring offensive, the advance will be much greater. But with the surprise nature of the mutiny, both sides will be caught off guard, and it will be easier for the Entente to move in British, Italian and rallied French units into defensive lines. And as the attack gets closer to Paris, I expect the units to go from mutiny status to we don't attack status.

1917 WF Temp gif.gif
 
Best way to get this is to keep America neutral.

Without the promise of ultimate rescue by American manpower and material, the French don't have the of option of a "Petain" strategy of keeping to the defensive with occasional small attacks to maintain morale. They either beat the Boche or else they lose, either in the field or at the peace table.

So Petain isn't appointed. Instead you get some martinet who suppresses the mutiny by the usual methods, and insists on launching another ofensive. Morale falls through the floor, and within a few weeks or months you get another and bigger mutiny, this time much more violent and leading to the total disintegration of the army. Maybe Petain gets appointed now, but it's like that of Groener in October 1918 - the right choice, but far too late. All he can do is advise the government to seek peace.
 
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