WI: Imperial Russia vs Confederate states of America cold war

Maxell

Maxell

Banned
Okay so this may have a POD in the 19th century but the thing is the events would probably be so that the rivalry would last into the 21st century unless there's some circumstance I couldn't see.

Exactly as it says on the tin; Make the russian empire never fall or win the russian civil war, and instead have the USA not only loose the civil war but end up becoming so irrelevant afterwards that CSA takes it's place as future superpower. Any ideas on how this could develop?
 
Cymry-Korean

Cymry-Korean

Maxell said:
Okay so this may have a POD in the 19th century but the thing is the events would probably be so that the rivalry would last into the 21st century unless there's some circumstance I couldn't see.

Exactly as it says on the tin; Make the russian empire never fall or win the russian civil war, and instead have the USA not only loose the civil war but end up becoming so irrelevant afterwards that CSA takes it's place as future superpower. Any ideas on how this could develop?
Click to expand...
Utterly impossible. Even in a maximalist CSA victory it would never be able to challenge the USA economically let alone push it into irrelevance.

For a Tsarist victory, all that's really needed is the survival of a Tsar post 1880 who's truly open to reform. One who embraced reform instead of merely being dragged along kicking and screaming like Nicholas II.
 
Last edited:

danteheadman

Banned
The only way the CSA could surpass the USA if it it somehow took over the USA's northern industrial base and, consequently, the Great Plains and West Coast. Any modern industrialized state that covers most of North America is going to be a great power, for a huge number of reasons.

Now, I have no idea what needs to happen for the CSA to take over the USA. As UoBLoyalist correctly stated, no plausible CSA victory would overshadow an existing USA. So let's suppose arguendo that ITTL the CSA does somehow take over the entire USA and move on from there.

What if ITTL the CSA has a Communist Revolution at around the same time as Russia's OTL Communist Revolution? Note that in OTL the Civil War ended in the 1865 and the Russian Revolution happened in 1917. Obviously the CSA would remain an agrarian slaveholding society for as long as the white ruling class would be able to maintain it, and I think it's reasonable to argue that it could maintain its oppressive system for fifty or sixty years before being at serious risk of collapsing. And given the tenor of 20th century liberation movements around the globe, a revolution against the CSA would definitely draw from Communist ideas. (I also like this idea for the silly reason that "CSA" can also stand for "Communist States of America.")

I think it's plausible for the Romanovs to avert a revolution and successfully reform. Nicholas II OTL tried to do just that but was defeated by various factors that can to some degree be mitigated. And if we see one or two World Wars reasonably similar to those OTL, there could easily be an ersatz Cold War between a liberal democratic Russia under a constitutional monarchy and a revolutionary communist CSA.

The big questions here are: how can the CSA absorb the USA? And, how could the World Wars shake out so the Central Powers lose anyway?
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
The CSA has a communist revolution and basically becomes like OTL USSR in dragging itself up to the reality of the level of power that it pretends to have
 

HIM Dogson

I guess you could have this happen in spirit by having slavers stay dominant in Congress, followed by a northern secession that is crushed? This would lead to a US with slavery still entrenched and led by a planter oligarchy, but with the northern lands that would allow it to be an industrial superpower.
 

mial42

Gone Fishin'
Only way you're getting the CSA to the Russian Empire's level is with a Northern Succession scenario where the North calls itself the CSA.
 
GameBawesome

GameBawesome

Here’s a countryball version I found, that can summarize this idea

4B4A5021-18F7-4D20-B4E7-8DB3DCA402F9.jpeg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top
Top