WI: Immigration to Russian Empire instead of United States?

[Alligator]

Hypothetically, assume the Russian Empire has major land reform and constitutionalization (perhaps with roots in the Napoleonic Wars) prior to the 1840s, and serfdom is abolished early. In the 1850s or 1860s it has an imperial proclamation something like the Homestead Act, but to settle the Volga, the Eurasian steppe, and Siberia, instead of the American Great Plains.

Meanwhile, Britain, France, the USA, and the CSA are embroiled in a longer civil war which devastates those countries economically.

Also, Russian propaganda and pamphlets are sent throughout Europe to promote Russia and Siberia as a land of wide open plains and prosperous farmland. Later the same is done for Manchuria and Central Asia.

In this scenario, >60% of the European immigration to the US and Latin America from the late 1850s/1860s on, goes to Russia. These immigrants are granted homesteads or hired to help modernize the country.

What happens with the US receiving less immigration and Russia receiving far more? Cultural, religious effects? Population of Siberia?

 

[Kibbutznik]

Would just like to point out that many of those who immigrated to America were FROM the Russian Empire

 

[Aphrodite]

Would just like to point out that many of those who immigrated to America were FROM the Russian Empire

Russian immigration to America was practically nil. What little there was came mostly from Poland and was largely Jews. , The very small Orthodox Church presence in America is proof. Most immigrants to America before 1900 are from Germany, Italy, Ireland and the British Isles. Even after the Revolution, immigration from Russia was very small

 

[Alligator]

Russian immigration to America was practically nil. What little there was came mostly from Poland and was largely Jews. , The very small Orthodox Church presence in America is proof. Most immigrants to America before 1900 are from Germany, Italy, Ireland and the British Isles. Even after the Revolution, immigration from Russia was very small

True, although there were some Volga Germans who were actually from Russia, that moved to the Midwest and Great Plains states.

 

[SRBO]

You'd need to overhaul the Russian political system and convince everyone that Siberia isn't just a place where you get murdered by tatars and turks and shit

 

[RGB]

Russia was actually pretty short on free arable land. The only real places where colonisation could have happened would be the Hungry Steppe (so Kazakhstan) and maybe the Amur basin. In both cases, it was colonised by Russian/Ukrainian/German peasants as it was.

What Russia needed was a qualitative increase in agriculture efficiency (something that OTL had to wait for the Revolution, really), and then I could see immigration into the cities for factory workers and clerks and such. But it would be a very different Russia.

 

[SRBO]

Yes that is also the problem. Siberia (and pretty much most of Asia) has a unusual climate where it's unbearably hot during the summer and horrifyingly cold in winter.

Not to mention the fact that the Far East is hilly and permafrosted so agriculture is difficult

 

[Dave Howery]

seems like the only advantage Russia had is that 'it was closer'...

 

[Red Orm]

seems like the only advantage Russia had is that 'it was closer'...

Not really, even. A two or three week long journey from Dublin or Brighton or Southampton or Bremen to New York and the land of golden opportunity sure beat the uncertain train rides to Russia (if you could find a decent train), and then the months long slog to whatever land is remote and dangerous enough to be unoccupied.

 

[RogueTraderEnthusiast]

You might see this in the future if Global Warming projections are anything to go by - the great green fields of Siberia await!

Sadly though, I think everyone has pretty much nailed it down - Russia may have space to live, just nowhere to farm, so unless there was some sort of mining-rush, or mining boom, then you're pretty stuck.

 

[DanMcCollum]

True, although there were some Volga Germans who were actually from Russia, that moved to the Midwest and Great Plains states.

I was just going to bring up the German-Russians. Also, there was certain non-Jewish Polish immigration from Russian-Poland (although, during this period, not as much as from Prussia.

 

[nemoblank]

I think the Church takes extreme exception to non-Orthodox invaders and has the Russian people rise and kill the Czar.

 

[Alligator]

I think the Church takes extreme exception to non-Orthodox invaders and has the Russian people rise and kill the Czar.

They didn't do that when the Volga Germans immigrated.

 

[DanMcCollum]

They didn't do that when the Volga Germans immigrated.

That was a bit of a special case, as Catherine had promised them religious freedom, the right to educate their children in their own language, as well as exempting them from the draft. So it would seem that she was altering the normal policies of the time. However, after Catherine, later Czars began to erode at the privileges given to the German-Russians, which is when many emigrated to the United States instead.

 

[funnyhat]

Russian immigration to America was practically nil. What little there was came mostly from Poland and was largely Jews. , The very small Orthodox Church presence in America is proof.

Finns, also. There are substantial Finnish communities in the Upper Midwest. Of course they are not Orthodox but Lutheran.

And obviously there was a very large Polish emigration, to all of the major Midwestern cities. So while ethnic Russians didn't necessarily leave in large numbers, there was a significant emigration from the empire all the same.

 

[DanMcCollum]

Finns, also. There are substantial Finnish communities in the Upper Midwest. Of course they are not Orthodox but Lutheran.

As someone who has lived in the UP (and adores it up there), I can vouch to the Finnish presence in the Iron and Copper ranges of the Upper Midwest

 

[funnyhat]

As someone who has lived in the UP (and adores it up there), I can vouch to the Finnish presence in the Iron and Copper ranges of the Upper Midwest

The U.P. is a great place. Beautiful scenery and very interesting local culture. You need a bit of "sisu" to deal with those winters though.

 

[DanMcCollum]

The U.P. is a great place. Beautiful scenery and very interesting local culture. You need a bit of "sisu" to deal with those winters though.

Oh bah, I used to LIVE for those winters. I still remember in college, I was driving in Marquette with my friends and her boyfriend. Me and her get excited, noticing that the snow had lefted enough that you could see the sidewalks. Her boyfriend gives us this strange look, and so she turns to him and says "You don't understand honey. Once you see the sidewalks, its officially spring!"

If the winter doesn't make you say "Holy Wah" it wasn't a good one!

 

[nemoblank]

The Volga Germans were limited in number, knew the deal and had vital skills which were being transferred to Russia. Unfettered mass immigration would be tantamount to national and cultural suicide for any ethnic state and the Church would never allow it.

 

[Petete123123]

If Russia, as the OP indicated, has reformed, many complications from OTL won't be there. Agriculture would certainly be more efficient and on par with Western levels. I see a lot of Germans immigrating to this Russia. There is already a large German community, who under this regime won't be so undermined as OTL. Travel is not that long, Russia is just across the border. If many did the trip in the 18th century, why not now? Also, the equivalent to the 48 generation might go to a liberal Russia instead of America.

Another thing to consider is that under a more liberal, constitutional Russia, the minorities that in OTL emigrated might no do so. Poles, Jews and Volga Germans might very well stay, and even fuel the colonization of the steppe. If life quality is good, land is avaiable and they are not repressed, why would a Pole travel across the Atlantic when he can just go to Kazakhstan, which has the benefit of being in the same country?

True, although there were some Volga Germans who were actually from Russia, that moved to the Midwest and Great Plains states.

Here in Argentina, something between 80% to 90% of the German immigrants were actually Volga Germans, who had Russian passports. That's why we call Ruso(Russian) to blond white people, when in fact almost no Russian immigrated here.