WI: Ike dies

WI Ike Eisenhower on one of his trips to the frontline is killed in a accident? THe death happens during the timeframe between the liberation of Paris and the liberation of Antwerp.

Who will lead the combined allied forces and will he allow Monty to do Market-Garden?
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
Replacement will be either Brooke or Marshall. Neither of them had much use for Monty. Marshall is more likely, especially if it is after Paris falls.

Of the other contenders for the job I would say that Bradley is the most likely if FDR won't part with Marshall (who the President really wanted to have on hand in D.C.)
 
Replacement will be either Brooke or Marshall. Neither of them had much use for Monty. Marshall is more likely, especially if it is after Paris falls.

I'll contend the point that Alanbrooke didn't have much use for Monty. Alanbrooke was Monty's biggest supporter and certainly held him in high regards as far as his abilities in the field of battle went - if not so much for allied relations and keeping his opinions to himself. Monty will not face the prospect of a diminished role if Alanbrooke replaces a deceased Eisenhower as he will still be retained as the commander of 21st Army Group under Alanbrooke who would be SHEAF.

If Marshall gets the job then Monty's role will be significantly diminished and Marshall will favor the American Generals. Marshall had no real respect for Montgomery as a general at all and reports from the American's in the field certainly coloured his views towards the Field Marshall (started when Eisenhower played down Monty's achievements in North Africa and continued since).

In an Alanbrooke getting SHEAF command scenario I would imagine that he would halt the broad front and form a strong force with which to launch a more concentrated thrust against the Germans. He was, after all, one of the biggest critics of the Broad Front strategy and believed it had significantly lengthened the war.

In a Marshall getting SHEAF command scenario then I imagine the Broad Front Strategy is continued as Marshall supported Eisenhower's strategy wholeheartedly and the fact that Eisenhower did tell him that it was going so well means that I dont see him changing the strategy at all.

In a Bradley getting SHEAF command scenario then the strategy is changed to support a concentrated thrust in the Saar region with 21st Army group being used as flank guard for 12th Army Group. This is difinitive as that was what Bradley wanted to do in OTL.

In a Monty getting SHEAF command scenario, unlikely though that may be, the single concentrated thrust is resurrected and the North is given priority over the rest of the front with the Rhur industiral valley as its first aim and eventually Berlin.

Other potential SHEAF officer are Alexander or Clark but neither would be in the front running positions for that job.
 

CalBear

Moderator
Donor
Monthly Donor
I'll contend the point that Alanbrooke didn't have much use for Monty. Alanbrooke was Monty's biggest supporter and certainly held him in high regards as far as his abilities in the field of battle went - if not so much for allied relations and keeping his opinions to himself. Monty will not face the prospect of a diminished role if Alanbrooke replaces a deceased Eisenhower as he will still be retained as the commander of 21st Army Group under Alanbrooke who would be SHEAF.

If Marshall gets the job then Monty's role will be significantly diminished and Marshall will favor the American Generals. Marshall had no real respect for Montgomery as a general at all and reports from the American's in the field certainly coloured his views towards the Field Marshall (started when Eisenhower played down Monty's achievements in North Africa and continued since).



In an Alanbrooke getting SHEAF command scenario I would imagine that he would halt the broad front and form a strong force with which to launch a more concentrated thrust against the Germans. He was, after all, one of the biggest critics of the Broad Front strategy and believed it had significantly lengthened the war.

In a Marshall getting SHEAF command scenario then I imagine the Broad Front Strategy is continued as Marshall supported Eisenhower's strategy wholeheartedly and the fact that Eisenhower did tell him that it was going so well means that I dont see him changing the strategy at all.

In a Bradley getting SHEAF command scenario then the strategy is changed to support a concentrated thrust in the Saar region with 21st Army group being used as flank guard for 12th Army Group. This is difinitive as that was what Bradley wanted to do in OTL.

In a Monty getting SHEAF command scenario, unlikely though that may be, the single concentrated thrust is resurrected and the North is given priority over the rest of the front with the Rhur industiral valley as its first aim and eventually Berlin.

Other potential SHEAF officer are Alexander or Clark but neither would be in the front running positions for that job.
Dear God, can you imagine how screwed up the ETO would be with Clark in charge?:eek: Alexander had his issues with "jointness" (among other things) but Clark was a hack to the nth degree.
 
Dear God, can you imagine how screwed up the ETO would be with Clark in charge?:eek: Alexander had his issues with "jointness" (among other things) but Clark was a hack to the nth degree.

Mark Clark was the worst allied general. You might see MULTIPLE offensives into the Vosages and the Hurtgen forrest cause he didn't give a shit about terrain when he ordered attacks. He also liked to attack the strongest portion of enemy lines instead of taking advantage of allied manueverability so you would see head on attacks against Metz the Hindenberg line that would be total blood baths. He would meet the Russians on the Weser or the Rhine... it would be all bad
 

burmafrd

Banned
Clark was without a doubt the worse senior US General of WW2. Made Macarthur look like a genius. I think the New Supreme Commander had to be an American due to the difference in size of commitments to Europe, 2/3 of all troops were US. FDR really did not want to let Marshal out of DC, but maybe in this case he would. Bradley- just not senior enough. Same with Patch. The more I think about it - seems like Marshal would have been the only choice.
 

Cook

Banned
You can rule out Montgomery. The American preponderance of numbers means that supreme overall command must go to an American General.
My bet would be General Omar Bradley, with Patton taking over 12th Army Group. And I would see this as accelerating the conclusion if Bradley can get the logistics problem sorted, something Eisenhower failed to do.
 
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