WI humans had 20,000 more years without civilization to evolve?

What if, for whatever reason, humans across the globe invented civilization 20,000 years later than OTL? Limited agriculture, nomadic pastoralism, and the like are still okay. Particularly pastoralism. Making simple pots or cave paintings is also allowed.

With Native Americans/Paleo-Indians having more time to adapt to new latitudes, how would they look? Would there be 'black' and 'white' natives of the New World? What animals might they domesticate with 'extra time'?

Would the Indo-Europeans spread farther east and north (probably not any farther south)?

Would, after acquiring lactose tolerance from the Indo-Europeans or evolving it by themselves, the Afro-Semites spread into the arid areas of North Africa and the Middle East without any need for a Caliphate?

What else might occur?
 
Interesting question, I've wondered this myself. Based on our current understanding, you'd need the unstable climate of the glacial period to stay put for longer in order to halt agriculture.
 
What if, for whatever reason, humans across the globe invented civilization 20,000 years later than OTL? Limited agriculture, nomadic pastoralism, and the like are still okay. Particularly pastoralism. Making simple pots or cave paintings is also allowed.
Then the world would be in another Ice Age, and it wouldn't develop then.
With Native Americans/Paleo-Indians having more time to adapt to new latitudes, how would they look? Would there be 'black' and 'white' natives of the New World? What animals might they domesticate with 'extra time'?
Given that they didn't develop skin variation (much) in 13k years, I don't see why another 20k would make a difference.

There might be more domestication. The llama would likely head north.

Would the Indo-Europeans spread farther east and north (probably not any farther south)?
Given that the spread of Indo-European languages maps pretty well to the spread of agriculture in Europe, there's good reason to think its spread (there at least) was a direct result of agriculture. Thus we may well have far LESS spread of Indo-Europeans, not more.

Would, after acquiring lactose tolerance from the Indo-Europeans or evolving it by themselves, the Afro-Semites spread into the arid areas of North Africa and the Middle East without any need for a Caliphate?

What else might occur?
Semites have their own mutation. There's one for Europeans, 2 in the Middle East and one in Africa (Bantus, basically).
 
Then the world would be in another Ice Age, and it wouldn't develop then.
Well, you could have a stable period and then everything goes to crap again. Pastoralism survives but agriculture becomes unfeasible.

Given that they didn't develop skin variation (much) in 13k years, I don't see why another 20k would make a difference.
33,000 years is more than double 13,000 years. I think it would mean a lot.

Given that the spread of Indo-European languages maps pretty well to the spread of agriculture in Europe, there's good reason to think its spread (there at least) was a direct result of agriculture. Thus we may well have far LESS spread of Indo-Europeans, not more.
They did, however, have cows, and they might get horses and goats from neighbors.

I thought their spread was correlated with the spread of lactose tolerance? (Except the two Semitic mutations). After all agriculture was not invented in Europe.

There might be more domestication. The llama would likely head north.
Why does the llama count as civilization and not the cow? :confused:

Semites have their own mutation. There's one for Europeans, 2 in the Middle East and one in Africa (Bantus, basically).
I thought that there might be several origins of the mutation but I wasn't sure.
 
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Well, you could have a stable period and then everything goes to crap again. Pastoralism survives but agriculture becomes unfeasible.
Agriculture is always feasible in fertile areas. It is a question of time and effort. Take the example of the Apaches, they would sow seeds in areas then come back harvest what had grown.

Pastoralism is similar in that you are essentially protecting herds from non-human predators and not going out to find the kill the first antelope you find. Again always feasible but only if the local herds are thin enough in number to merit the effort.

33,000 years is more than double 13,000 years. I think it would mean a lot.
That is a seriously long time to stop human population growing without a need for a food supply greater than one based purely on hunting and gathering.

If you take the time from the earliest known cities, 10,000 BC in the Near East to 1000 AD for the Amazonian jungle cities http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/08/080828-amazon-cities_2.html, you are looking at a time span for known easiest development to the toughest ever of 11,000 years. To delay the easiest by twice this is going to require a reduction in world population of mega proportions, say a mini asteroid impact.
 
To delay the easiest by twice this is going to require a reduction in world population of mega proportions, say a mini asteroid impact.
How do you define mini? Something on the scale of the Toba eruption is still pretty big, even if it's not a dinosaur killer. Something around 1km in diameter IIRC. That does seem like the simplest way to delay civilization though.

Interestingly, at least in regards to the northern parts of the world, the post-glacial rebound should be over by then (assuming no new glacial period), which would reduce the Baltic to a (large) lake in the south, joining the Scandinavian peninsula directly to mainland Europe. Southern England and the Netherlands/Northern Germany is going to sink a bit, though I'm not sure how much. Pretty minor compared to the uplift in Scandinavia at least.

In North America, everything that's Canada would be joined together as well, leaving just the sea between Canada and Greenland below sea level. At least no one is going to go looking for a North-West Passage in this world.:p
 
How do you define mini? Something on the scale of the Toba eruption is still pretty big, even if it's not a dinosaur killer. Something around 1km in diameter IIRC. That does seem like the simplest way to delay civilization though.
Between the two. A second Toba is not going to enough to take out the thriving American tribes as well as reducing the Euroasia population. A second dinosaur killer is going to stop the advance of civilisation more that 20 thousand years.
 
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