WI: Hudson Bay Company Becomes a Independent Nation

GuildedAgeNostalgia

1) The Hudson Bay Company was a English joint stock company that was created in the 1660s. It was given ownership of all the land whose rivers drained into the Hudson Bay. This land makes up much, if not most of Northern Canada.

2) For about 200 years, the Hudson Bay Company had a almost complete Monopoly over the Canadian fur trade. In the mid 1800s, the company began to diversify it's industries and assets. The company still exists today.

3) Although primarily a company, the HBC was also a de facto semi independent state:
- It was allowed to govern over it's own land.
- It had it's own series of forts and militia.
- It was allowed to make trade agreements and treaties with Native Americans.
- It had its own regulated paper currency.
- It had its own company settlements around the forts.
- It had its own merchant marine.

4) Although the company still exists today, in the late 1800s, if gave up its land claims and right to self govern to the British and eventually Canadian governments.

My question is, what if the HBC decides to not join the rest of British Canada, remains its own company run territory in the late 1800s, and then becomes a independent Corporate Nation and member of the British Commonwealth in the 1900s?

- How does the nation develop?
- Who immigrates there?
- How would its economy and society develop?
- What would be its impact on the rest of the world?
 

Canuck Wingnut

If it lasts to the modern day, Rupert's Land (as the land holdings of the HBC were called) will have oil and gas in alt-Alberta plus nickel , gold and associated other mining in alt-Northern Ontario. It has the potential, therefore, to be an incredibly resource rich nation.

On the other hand, it's unlikely to be very populous. OTL the Hudson's Bay Company was, for most of its history, opposed to immigration into the territory it controlled because it saw itself as a fur-trading company first and agricultural immigrants were a cost rather than a profit center. ATL as the fur trade declines the alt-HBC will probably lose some of its resistance to immigration, but most of its territory will be remote and unattractive to potential settlers with any other options. In particular, without the Canadian Pacific Railroad there really won't be a good route to the best agricultural portions of Rupert's Land, sealed off by the Canadian Shield in the east and the Rockies in the West.

On the other hand, if Rupert's Land starts to democratize at some point, the native population will likely be more influential on its development. Fewer immigrants likely means a greater percentage of natives in the population, after all. That could be inspirational to native groups in the US and alt-Canada.

A casual note on alt-Canada: I suspect that BC won't join confederation without a land connection. On the other hand, I think some kind of Confederation amongst British colonies on the Eastern half of the continent is harder to butterfly. London wanted the small coastal colonies combined to increase administrative efficiency, and Quebec and Ontario wanted to change their joint constitution. That pressure doesn't go away when Rupert's Land doesn't become available for sale.

TL;DR: the bad option for modern day Rupert's Land is a resource curse, corporate run undemocratic dystopia. The good option is a culturally partially native, wealthy, inspiration for other English-speaking North American societies.

Unfortunately, with no incentive for HBC leadership to democratize and entrenched racist attitudes amongst its senior staff, I'm afraid the first option is more likely. At least it would be a cool setting for a cyberpunk game.
 

wwbgdiaslt

With the "Republic of HBC" and the Rump Canada to the East, would British Columbia having struck out on it own be more likely to fall in a repeat of the 54.40 or Flight / 54 or Bust scenario.
 
Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
Sorry you talking about a land locked country that both Canada and US have designs on. They have no agriculture since they spurned attempts to bring settlers to the territory. Their business model would not allow them to Be independent
 
AltoRegnant

AltoRegnant

It depends on when; the HBC was also London's gateway into Oregon and BC. If the Cascadian territory goes, I would imagine it would be something of an Atlantic power. but it would also require strong relations with the major powers
 
Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
KingOnTheEdge said:
It depends on when; the HBC was also London's gateway into Oregon and BC. If the Cascadian territory goes, I would imagine it would be something of an Atlantic power. but it would also require strong relations with the major powers
Click to expand...
Sorry but either part of Canada or BC but not independent
 

GuildedAgeNostalgia

Lusitania said:
Sorry you talking about a land locked country that both Canada and US have designs on. They have no agriculture since they spurned attempts to bring settlers to the territory. Their business model would not allow them to Be independent
Click to expand...
- Considering that in otl they governed themselves for 200 years with their otl business model, I don't think there's a economic issue here.

- HBC land isn't landlocked.

KingOnTheEdge said:
It depends on when; the HBC was also London's gateway into Oregon and BC. If the Cascadian territory goes, I would imagine it would be something of an Atlantic power. but it would also require strong relations with the major powers
Click to expand...
- The idea would be that they remain a Commonwealth member with tight relations with GB at least into the mid 1900s.
 
Talwar

Talwar

I've written a couple of things with this idea in the background. Been thinking about blowing it up into something larger.
 

GuildedAgeNostalgia

So in terms of economy and industries, we have:
- Fur trade
- Lumber and wood working
- Mining
- Oil and gas
- Fishing
- Elk/Moose/Deer farms/ranches


Another thing to note is that the HBC has stores outside of HBC land, Which could have interesting affects on how they export products
 
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Lusitania

Lusitania

Donor
It is landlocked for 10 months a year and rely on canoes and several portage to get to south. It’s a trading company not a colony
 

Jürgen

Honestly you need someone else to own it, you don't establish a independent state out of a massive underpopulated territory if you own more densely populated territory close by. Let's say that the French trappers who established the company goes to Amsterdam, Copenhagen or Stockholm instead (I avoided suggesting Paris because in that case UK would just conquer it at the same time as Canada).
 

GuildedAgeNostalgia

Lusitania said:
Those who are promoting this do not understand the geographic limitations
Click to expand...
That's not true

Lusitania said:
Other than fur nothing else it accessible unless part of another country.
Click to expand...
That's not true
- They have ports and a merchant marine in otl.
- Mining was a thing before railroads and they could still get investors to build a railroad from the inland to the coast if they had to.
- A Transcontinental railroad is possible without a unified Canada.

Jürgen said:
Honestly you need someone else to own it, you don't establish a independent state out of a massive underpopulated territory if you own more densely populated territory close by. Let's say that the French trappers who established the company goes to Amsterdam, Copenhagen or Stockholm instead (I avoided suggesting Paris because in that case UK would just conquer it at the same time as Canada).
Click to expand...

The British government didn't force the HBC to join Canada. There were negotiations and the HBC joined willingly in otl (after being heavily compensated).
 

wwbgdiaslt

John Wodehouse becomes the last Governor of the HBC. Donald Smith, ahe 49, becomes the Acting Prime Minister of the Dominion of Hudson in 1869, with elections held the following year in which he is returned to office.
 
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