WI: House of Normandy Marries into Irish Noble House?

As it says..

What if during the Norman period of rule in England, an serious attempt was made to bring an Irish noble house, through marriage, to the ruling bloodline?

Could this be a much better avenue of actually integrating Ireland and the Irish people? Could it have even worked?
 
I am under the impression that the Irish ruling classes were not regarded as fully counting as "nobility" by Feudal Europe standards.
 
I am under the impression that the Irish ruling classes were not regarded as fully counting as "nobility" by Feudal Europe standards.

As far as I am aware your impression is correct. If the relations between the English/British and Irish later on in the OTL is any indication, then even the local chiefs would be considered lower class.

An interesting note that I am comfortable enough to post on this forum about is the fact that I am related to Brian Boru, one of the high kings of Ireland, through my great grandmother on my father's side. This post caught my attention due to my relation and my interest in Irish history.
 
I think, in general, the barbarian-ish Irish with their poxy little kingdoms are too lowly to be married into the direct ruling line. Especially considering the Norman focus was always on the continent and it's natural for them to seek alliances there.

Now, breaking the continental focus might make the Kings of England focus more on Ireland, but that's extremely hard to do- IOTL they focused on French territorial claims for, like, four centuries (as attested by Henry VIII's French campaigns) despite numerous catastrophes, especially in the reigns of John and Henry VI.

It's obviously post-house of Normandy, but in the 1150s Henry II supposedly wanted to invade Ireland and make his brother William king.

So, if you get a longer-lived House of Normandy (easiest POD is avoiding the White Ship disaster and/or having William Adelin survive it) you could see a similar scheme where a younger brother/son gets set up with a lordship in Ireland (or they can do it independently of the king). Then, they could marry an Irish heiress to claim lands on her behalf/pseudo-legitimise their rule- which happened OTL when Richard 'Strongbow' de Clare married a daughter of the King of Leinster.

Then, if you want Irish-blooded Kings of England, you have fortuitous deaths that see the kingdom of England fall into the hands of our hypothetical younger brother and his Irish wife.
 
Then, if you want Irish-blooded Kings of England, you have fortuitous deaths that see the kingdom of England fall into the hands of our hypothetical younger brother and his Irish wife.

How about the half-Irish Isabel de Clare who in OTL married William Marshal. A possible alternate wife for John?
 
Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Isabel de Clare's marriage after the House of Normandy was out of power and the Plantagenets ruled England?
 
How about the half-Irish Isabel de Clare who in OTL married William Marshal. A possible alternate wife for John?

That could work, given Henry II tried to set John up as Lord of Ireland (though Isabel is only half-Irish) but...

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't Isabel de Clare's marriage after the House of Normandy was out of power and the Plantagenets ruled England?

Yeah, Isabel was born a full 37-years after Henry I's death extinguished the House of Normandy in the (legitimate) male line.
 
When 'King of Ireland' was still a thing, it did not go by primageniture. The next High King could be one of any number of local kings, and the next local king could be anyone related to the great grandfather of the current one. This was understandably popular with those Anglo-Irish who didn't approve of eldest sons. The English complained that they quickly became 'more Irish than the Irish ' (see - gavelkind and alterage). :D
 
When 'King of Ireland' was still a thing, it did not go by primageniture. The next High King could be one of any number of local kings, and the next local king could be anyone related to the great grandfather of the current one. This was understandably popular with those Anglo-Irish who didn't approve of eldest sons. The English complained that they quickly became 'more Irish than the Irish ' (see - gavelkind and alterage). :D
That is correct. From my understanding it was more of a symbolic thing later on down the line.

From what I gather so far the only way this would have a chance to work is if William Adelin survives. Otherwise, it is highly likely that this proposed marriage would take place when the Plantagenets took power in England. The only thing that I would see being a problem is the fact that Ireland wasn't necessarily united. It was divided up into different kingdoms and marriage with a member of the ruling family of one of those kingdoms may cause issues with the others.

In my opinion, even with the possibility of the House of Normandy marrying into a royal house, the island as a whole becoming a part of the kingdom of England will be a long and drawn out process.
 
Even still surely one house could be chosen. Maybe the richest one?

I get that the different tradition regarding inheritance discussed in this thread, combined with a tendential extreme fractiousness of Irish political landscape, would make this problematic. What counts as a "house" in Anglo-Norman terms (with, frex, a head of the house, primogeniture, and a relatively well defined positioning in a hierarchy of feudal loyalties ) may not have a clear analog in Ireland at the relevant time.
 
I get that the different tradition regarding inheritance discussed in this thread, combined with a tendential extreme fractiousness of Irish political landscape, would make this problematic. What counts as a "house" in Anglo-Norman terms (with, frex, a head of the house, primogeniture, and a relatively well defined positioning in a hierarchy of feudal loyalties ) may not have a clear analog in Ireland at the relevant time.

My guess would be that 'clan' would be a better term in this case. I must say though, that this thread has me coming up with ideas for an alternate timeline (not the OP's idea though, something...different).
 
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