WI: Hood Explodes at Mers-el-Kebir

Due to deferred maintenance and worn boilers Hood could only achieve 26.5 knots by early 1940.
Not entirely correct, as HMS Hood in may 1941 easily maintained a speed of 29 knots at Denmarkstrait. (See website HMS Hood Association) At teh time HMS Hood had a maximum speed listed as 29,5 knots, slightly less than the maximum speed when build, due to added weight and wear and tear of her aging engines.
 

Delta Force

Banned
Not entirely correct, as HMS Hood in may 1941 easily maintained a speed of 29 knots at Denmarkstrait. (See website HMS Hood Association) At teh time HMS Hood had a maximum speed listed as 29,5 knots, slightly less than the maximum speed when build, due to added weight and wear and tear of her aging engines.

Wikipedia claims Hood could only reach 26.5 knots in early 1940 and ironically enough that it suffered turbine damage reaching 28 knots at Mers-el-Kebir.
 
Hood could reach 28 knots in 1940 UNTIL Mers El Kebir when she stripped a turbine chasing Strasbourg, which brought her speed down to 26.5.
She recieved a refit in early 1941 that brought her back up to about 28-29 knots
 
Hood received a limited refit (in Jan - Mar 41) to fix her stripped turbine blades after which she was patched up enough for a good 28 knots +

It does actually mention this on Wikipedia by the way!

She was still in very poor shape however and was desperately overdue for a deep (Renown/Warspite) style refit at the time of her destruction but until more of the Fast KGVs came into service or more of the Axis Fast BBs were marked down - she could not be spared.

To put that into context she stripped the turbines in July 1940 - and such was the need for her to be kept in service the refit to repair this damage was not undertaken for 6 months!

Must have been a war on or somesuch?
 
That's your burden of proof?

There's a reason universities and research institutes do not allow Wikipedia as a primary reference of anything.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/32588168/...ts/t/biggest-wikipedia-blunders/#.V-f5NpMrLBI

No mate - I have no burden - its just funny that Delta Force had used the same source to prove that Hood was incapable of speeds over 26.5 knots at Denmark Strait due to her stripping turbine blades 6 months earlier despite the fact that it then goes on in the next paragraph to claim that the fault was fixed in said mini refit!

I was merely pointing this out - not using it as a source.

And in fairness 1 and 6 in your link may be true!

Other 'better' sources can be used as a burden of proof - this taken from the HMS Hood association Website (Note that these dates are 1941)

13 January–18 March: At Rosyth. De-ammunititioned, 14–15 January. Taken in hand for a refit, 16 January–17 March. Modifications included the addition of Type 284 gunnery radar and the removal of the forward topmast (it blocked Type 284 radar aerials from rotating properly). The topmast's yard was replaced by one fitted to the rear of the forward starfish platform. A Type 279M aerial surveillance radar was also fitted. Hood's Type 279 was different in that it could transmit and receive from the same aerial. The foremast torpedo lookout was removed. Steam picket boats were replaced by 35' motor launches. The blades of the starboard turbine (stripped during the chase of Strasbourg following Oran) were replaced.

15 February: Captain Ralph Kerr assumed command.
17 February: Fire in Warrant Officers' galley.
16 March: Ship's company inspected by HRH King George VI.


From the same site - based on official records and surviving logs etc 'Burden of proof' that Hood was making 28+ knots on the morning she was destroyed

And it amuses me no end where I see the 'Wikipedia is crap' comment from someone when the Wiki page in question disputes their point/position etc without them actually proving that it is wrong as in this case!
 
What would a refit between august 40 and and April 41 be able to achieve?
Would it be enough time for swapping the Shell rooms and powder mags and reinforcing the deck, plus a few other things?
 
And it amuses me no end where I see the 'Wikipedia is crap'
There's nothing wrong with using Wikipedia, but when we claim it must be true solely because it's on Wikipedia that we begin to stretch ourselves. One thing I do like about Wikipedia is the annotations/source notes so we can dig deeper if needed.
 
What would a refit between august 40 and and April 41 be able to achieve?
Would it be enough time for swapping the Shell rooms and powder mags and reinforcing the deck, plus a few other things?

My understanding from various sources was that the main guns were 'not' going to be modified to full MK1N standard in respects to swapping the Power and Shell Magazines - as this was too time consuming and the large gun facilities in Britain IIRC amounted to 9 large gun pits which at the time were in use building the remaining turrets for the KGVs.

My understanding is that the turrets would be improved to some degree, secondaries updated (Im guessing twin 4.5s along the lines of Renown or even 5.25s?), torpedo tubes removed, machinary updated or possibly given teh time contraints simply refurnished in which case her fresh water condensers would very likely to have been completely overhauled) and her deck armour doubled (providing weight savings could be made) and her superstructure fully or maybe partially revised (in line with other RN BBs) - i doubt that aircraft handling and hangers would be added.

I cannot recall if she would have received an improved torpedo bulge or not? But i suspect she would have done in line with Renown.
 
There's nothing wrong with using Wikipedia, but when we claim it must be true solely because it's on Wikipedia that we begin to stretch ourselves. One thing I do like about Wikipedia is the annotations/source notes so we can dig deeper if needed.

Thats exactly the way I use it and to be fair as it was intended to be used.
 
My understanding from various sources was that the main guns were 'not' going to be modified to full MK1N standard in respects to swapping the Power and Shell Magazines - as this was too time consuming and the large gun facilities in Britain IIRC amounted to 9 large gun pits which at the time were in use building the remaining turrets for the KGVs.

My understanding is that the turrets would be improved to some degree, secondaries updated (Im guessing twin 4.5s along the lines of Renown or even 5.25s?), torpedo tubes removed, machinary updated or possibly given teh time contraints simply refurnished in which case her fresh water condensers would very likely to have been completely overhauled) and her deck armour doubled (providing weight savings could be made) and her superstructure fully or maybe partially revised (in line with other RN BBs) - i doubt that aircraft handling and hangers would be added.

I cannot recall if she would have received an improved torpedo bulge or not? But i suspect she would have done in line with Renown.
Interesting..
4.5s are far more likely, considering the high demand for the 5.25.
Would they really have time to revise the Superstructure? Maybe strip the armour from the conning tower, as it was rarely used
aircraft facilities-unlikely, the admiralty was already reconsidering this for BBs
Maybe new fire control? I think there was a spare Admiralty fc that they were planning for one of the Rs
i wonder how much the torp tubes weighed..
 
Interesting..
4.5s are far more likely, considering the high demand for the 5.25.
Would they really have time to revise the Superstructure? Maybe strip the armour from the conning tower, as it was rarely used
aircraft facilities-unlikely, the admiralty was already reconsidering this for BBs
Maybe new fire control? I think there was a spare Admiralty fc that they were planning for one of the Rs
i wonder how much the torp tubes weighed..

According to this site a large repair was planned but would not have been possible before 1942

I fear that an 8 month 'large repair' is not going to be long enough for a deep Renown like refit anyway but I suspect that it might involved rather than a complete rebuild - instead a partial rebuild of the superstructure -as you say removing much of the armour from the superstructure - repairing the major issues with her machinary or possibly even replacing it with modern small tube boilers.
 
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