WI: Homophobia didn't exist

[Peppe]

Basically, what if homophobia didn't exist. How? Let's say that all faiths are either positive or neutral to homosexuality

EDIT: OK, I understand that homophobia would probably still exist, but what if, for most of human history, antagonism to homosexuality was an overwhelming minority

 

[Resurgam]

How does it happen?

 

[Bloodmage]

Basically, what if homophobia didn't exist. How? Let's say that all faiths are either positive or neutral to homossexuality

If an idea exists,there naturally would be people that do not like it and people that like it,homophobia cannot cease to exist,asb

Furthermore Christianity holds as holy the matrimony and union between man and woman,it was natural that they would be against homosexuality

 

[mougawar]

Basically, what if homophobia didn't exist. How? Let's say that all faiths are either positive or neutral to homossexuality

The most obvious obstacle to overcome in an early human society is that an homossexual couple wouldn't reproduce, and as such will not contribute to the furthering of the tribe. But with time and sedentarization of society you could develop a tolerance just as OTL, but to remove homophobia in its entirety i think is impossible, even with the total removal of religious influence.

 

[Lalli]

ASB. Homophobia is pretty mucn as inevitable thing than religion or racism. Even if you remove Abrahamic religions there would be still homophobia. You might get society without homophobia but you just can't do all people tolerate homosexuals.

 

[NotedCoyote]

Total absence of homophobia is probably ASB. Humans are remarkably good at rationalizing reasons to hate other people, and unscrupulous religious and political leaders are all too aware that scapegoating minorities and/or foreigners is an excellent way of channeling their peoples' dissatisfaction. Gay men (and women, though the more violent and extreme forms of homophobia were and are more likely to be aimed at men) make an especially useful target for hatred. Gay men are always the minority, before urbanization they lack the communal or family ties that would let them easily group together to overcome outside prejudice, and members of the elite can easily indulge in their homosexuality while hiding it publicly.

With that in mind, your second option of making the world's religions positive or neutral on the subject is a bit more achievable. Contrary to the idea that homophobia is natural or a result of evolutionary pressures, many early religions were neutral on the matter of homosexuality, and some were even positive toward homosexuality as long as it (like heterosexuality) remained within culturally accepted forms. Cultures across the worlds varied, but tolerance was far from unheard of in the ancient world.

The obvious elephant in the room is the Abrahamic faiths. Judaism incorporated homophobia into its religious teachings early on, possibly as a way of distinguishing its customs and practices from those of the Egyptians, Mesopotamians, and other neighbouring cultures... all of whom seem to have ranged from tolerant indifference to outright acceptance of male homosexuality. Christianity and Islam inherited Judaism's homophobia and spread it with them across the world, a process that was accelerated during the era of European colonialism. Find a way to change Jewish attitudes toward homosexuality before Christianity enters the scene and you've gone a long way toward creating a more tolerant world.

This still wouldn't prevent homophobia altogether - not when it provides such a convenient form of hate. Non-Abrahamic religions such as Zoroastrianism also held negative attitudes toward homosexuality. But a startling amount of the homophobia seen in Africa and Asia can be traced directly to colonial-era laws imposed by Christian Europeans, and to attitudes introduced to regions along with Christianity and Islam.

 

[Nathan Bernacki]

The history of homosexuality in the world is very much a complicated matter. While sexual orientation is a modern idea, the stigma around particular homosexual relations is not. In Ancient Greece, for example, relationships were based around cultivating masculinity. For example, sexual relationships between men and boys were tolerated because according to Greek tradition, to have a relationship with an adult was a sign of becoming a man. But in an purely adult relationship, if one member of the duo took on a passive role, then that passive member of the relationship would be scorned. Homosexuality was rife within the Greek military, because it was believed that if the men of a unit cared about each other, then it would reinforce morale.

There is no specific point where homophobia began, but there is no specific point where widespread tolerance for it began either. Different cultures had different beliefs surrounding the practice of same-sex relations. It definitely didn't start with Christianity, as Zoroastrianism also took a dim view of homosexuality. In China, the issue of homosexual relationships varied widely, depending on who you asked. Ming Dynasty literature celebrated homosexual relations while some people viewed Confucianism as being homophobic, due to listing not having children as sin against filial piety. Some emperors even had male concubines.

Several ancient dynasties in China also took a dim view of homosexuality, though there is debate as to when this dim view took root. Some say it began in the Tang Dynasty, which was influenced on some level by Christian and Islamic values, though some say such attitudes go back earlier to the Song Dynasty, which forbade male sex in the course of prostitution, though the first blatantly homophobic law came into effect during the Ming Dynasty. However, from my research, homosexuality and discussion of it is tolerated within the People's Republic of China, with it becoming a popular topic on Sina Weiblo after the legalization of same-sex marriage in the USA, though this liberalization only began in the 1980s, with Mao Zedong voicing his support for castrating 'sexual deviants'.

My point is, there is no simple POD I can list in which homophobia is neutralized. I can also not say that tolerance of homosexuality is a modern idea, since again, different cultures had different ideas. The only reason why homophobia is a issue now is because a singular religion has imposed itself in the West and integrated it's beliefs on sexual behaviour into the laws of several notable nations and the beliefs of high-profile individuals, who have had a reach unseen before thanks to the Internet.

 

[NotedCoyote]

The history of homosexuality in the world is very much a complicated matter. While sexual orientation is a modern idea, the stigma around particular homosexual relations is not. In Ancient Greece, for example, relationships were based around cultivating masculinity. For example, sexual relationships between men and boys were tolerated because according to Greek tradition, to have a relationship with an adult was a sign of becoming a man. But in an purely adult relationship, if one member of the duo took on a passive role, then that passive member of the relationship would be scorned. Homosexuality was rife within the Greek military, because it was believed that if the men of a unit cared about each other, then it would reinforce morale.

When it comes to scholarship around historical homosexuality and sexuality in general, one always runs into the eternal debate. Social constructionists argue that sexual orientation didn't exist until the modern era and that the ancients had no concept of identifying people based on their sexual preference. This view is, for obvious reasons, rejected by those who consider sexual orientation to be largely the result of biological factors. Humans simply haven't evolved enough since the 1800s for the biology of sexuality to be fundamentally different today than it would have been 200 years ago, or 1,000 years ago, or even 5,000 year ago.

There is no question that cultural norms and views shape people's perception of sexuality, but I'm skeptical about sexual orientation being an entirely modern idea. Plato's Symposium, for example, contains a rather bizarre but somehow touching just-so story explaining why some men and women are attracted to the opposite sex, while others are attracted to the same sex. In addition to being remarkable for acknowledging female sexual attraction at all, the speech Plato attributes to Aristophanes pretty clearly relies upon Plato's audience understanding that sexual attraction varies from person to person.

Ultimately, the OP's challenge becomes difficult to work toward without a working definition of homophobia. Were the Greek's "homophobic" because they celebrated certain forms of same-sex relationships but stigmatized others? Or should they be considered to fit within the goal of no homophobia because there was no active and legal persecution of the apparently numerous adult men who flouted social conventions and engaged in receptive sex? Like you say, it's not a simple matter.

 

[Fabius Maximus]

The most obvious obstacle to overcome in an early human society is that an homossexual couple wouldn't reproduce, and as such will not contribute to the furthering of the tribe.

There were/are some societies which take the view that "women are for babies, boys are for pleasure". They generally aren't very nice places, either for women or boys.

 

[bobby501]

The goal, when it comes to any form of bigotry, is to minimize it rather than eliminate it. It would be nice if it were eliminated, but that's rather utopian.

If the general view of homosexuality throughout history were the same as it is in, say, Amsterdam today then the main difference that springs to mind is literature. Shakespeare would probably have written at least a few same-sex love stories. On the other hand, various works in OTL that deal with the issue of coming out don't exist.

 

[mougawar]

There were/are some societies which take the view that "women are for babies, boys are for pleasure". They generally aren't very nice places, either for women or boys.

Yeah Buganda comes to mind. Where kings could have a hundred wives and still abused page boys at court. But that ended in the late 19th century.