WI: Holy Roman Empire forms in West Francia

The POD I have in mind is that both Charles the Bald and Louis the German live a few years longer than they did OTL, solving the conflict they had at the end of their lives with a treaty that would've given West Francia the imperial title as well as Italy and Lower Burgundy, while East Francia would've acquired Lotharingia (Upper Burgundy could go either way). This would form an HRE-like political situation in France as Emperors would have to focus on Italy rather than being able to consolidate their holdings. I have two questions regarding this. First one is if this is plausible, and if not, how this POD could improve. Second one is the big implications for a move like this both domestically and in foreign affairs.
 
The POD I have in mind is that both Charles the Bald and Louis the German live a few years longer than they did OTL, solving the conflict they had at the end of their lives with a treaty that would've given West Francia the imperial title as well as Italy and Lower Burgundy, while East Francia would've acquired Lotharingia (Upper Burgundy could go either way). This would form an HRE-like political situation in France as Emperors would have to focus on Italy rather than being able to consolidate their holdings. I have two questions regarding this. First one is if this is plausible, and if not, how this POD could improve. Second one is the big implications for a move like this both domestically and in foreign affairs.

The POD doesn't strike me as implausible, although admittedly I don't know enough about this period to be sure. As for implications, France IOTL was in many ways the cultural capital of mediaeval Europe, and the added prestige of the imperial title would only increase this. In terms of foreign policy, the French emperors would be sensible to content themselves with a nominal suzerainty over Italy, although as we all know political leaders can't always be relied upon to act sensibly. Then again, France was IIRC richer and more populous than Germany during this period, so they might be more successful in asserting their control. (Although the smart money would still be on their failing.)
 
West Francia had one disadvantage over East Francia though, unlike East Francia West Francia didn't have direct access to Italy. West Francia needs to control Burgundy to be able to have enough influence over Italy. If that happens, then East Francia has a real chance to gain Lotharingia (northern Francia Media) before West Francia can turn it's attention towards it.

The OTL Holy Roman Empire only gained control over Burgundy(-Arelat) in 1033.
 
What about the overall unity of these states? IIRC, both East Francia and West Francia at this point in time were about equal in how divided they are (I may be wrong on that though). If the West Frankish manage to acquire Italy, would they end up with a situation like the Holy Roman Empire, where the Emperors are not very powerful in and of themselves? On the other end of things, would Germany end up being like France where, after centuries of being decentralized, efforts are made to ensure centralization?
 
What about the overall unity of these states? IIRC, both East Francia and West Francia at this point in time were about equal in how divided they are (I may be wrong on that though). If the West Frankish manage to acquire Italy, would they end up with a situation like the Holy Roman Empire, where the Emperors are not very powerful in and of themselves? On the other end of things, would Germany end up being like France where, after centuries of being decentralized, efforts are made to ensure centralization?

Well, IOTL the HRE ended up being so decentralised partly because the Emperors spent too much time fighting in Italy and neglected their German holdings. So, it really depends on whether the West Frankish Emperors make the same mistake.
 
Well, IOTL the HRE ended up being so decentralised partly because the Emperors spent too much time fighting in Italy and neglected their German holdings. So, it really depends on whether the West Frankish Emperors make the same mistake.

Italy was very much linked to the Imperial dignity and up to a certain point meddling in Italian affairs can't be avoided. That's why it was only a mistake, that they spend too much time there, but this ATL Holy Roman Emperor like the OTL Holy Roman Emperor can't avoid spending time in Italy.
 
Italy was very much linked to the Imperial dignity and up to a certain point meddling in Italian affairs can't be avoided. That's why it was only a mistake, that they spend too much time there, but this ATL Holy Roman Emperor like the OTL Holy Roman Emperor can't avoid spending time in Italy.

Well yeah, they'd have to travel to/from Rome for their coronations, but trying to impose direct rule on the peninsula would be both unnecessary and unwise.
 
The POD I have in mind is that both Charles the Bald and Louis the German live a few years longer than they did OTL, solving the conflict they had at the end of their lives with a treaty that would've given West Francia the imperial title as well as Italy and Lower Burgundy, while East Francia would've acquired Lotharingia (Upper Burgundy could go either way). This would form an HRE-like political situation in France as Emperors would have to focus on Italy rather than being able to consolidate their holdings. I have two questions regarding this. First one is if this is plausible, and if not, how this POD could improve. Second one is the big implications for a move like this both domestically and in foreign affairs.

Would East Francia still officially be part of the Empire in this scenario? If so it would probably be de facto independent, but still, this could have interesting repercussions down the line.
 
Well yeah, they'd have to travel to/from Rome for their coronations, but trying to impose direct rule on the peninsula would be both unnecessary and unwise.

The Emperor will also be king of Italy, a vital symbolic part of the (Holy) Roman Empire. Having some control over Italy is linked to the position of (Holy) Roman Emperor.
 
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