WI: Hoche lives

  • Thread starter Deleted member 14881
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Deleted member 14881

What If Hoche succeeds with the Irish exposition and manages to be 1st Consul of France around the same time as Napoleon?
 
I'm glad I'm messaged as the Hoche expert aroun dhere.

It's interesting to speculate on what a surviving Hoche would have done. I think the best way to get this is to have his invasion of Ireland be successful in 1797 (successful meaning there's a run on the bank of England, which triggers a financial crisis, and an Irish Republic that takes at least a year to get crushed by the British. In the meantime, the French in Egypt get a bit more firmly established...)

Hoche, like Napoleon, would pursue French interests first and foremost. (In OTL in his discussion with Irish revolutionaries, he proposed a French monopoly on commerce with the island, to replace the British monopoly). But he was probably more willing to accomodate allies to pursue his goals; hence he didn't make this requirement a demand in any treaty with with the Irish revolutionaries. His experience in the Rhineland, where he lamented that "misguided extremism" had alienated many moderates, and where he proposed reinstating some of the old regime's governance, suggests, along with his toleration for the Catholic Church in the Vendee, something similar to the turn to conservatism under Bonaparte.

Napoleon and Hoche would be... explosive, to put it mildly. For one thing, Hoche was boning Josephine. Perhaps equally important, both saw themselves as representing the kind of leaderhsip France needed. Who triumphs is left as an exercise for the reader.
 

Deleted member 14881

If Hoche manages to take power and will he try and speard Republicanism in Europe?
 
Hard to say, but my guess is he is more likely to try to cement Amiens; he seems, based on his letters, to have been more aware of the cost of continuous war. (But this might reflect his time in the Vendee).

So it depends on whether you think an Amiens type peace would be viable.

The wild card, IMO, is Germany. In OTL the Rhineland spent its time as part of France. But if you have a Cisrhennian and Swabian Republic, even if they are French puppets, they might have an enduring impression on German nationalism, just as the Kingdom and Republic of Italy did.

(My guess is the two republics would be merged, but I'm not sure what you would call them. The Rhenish Republic?)
 
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Deleted member 14881

Will Hoche propose a customs union with the Sister Republics and in the Future will the German and Italian republics try and unite Germany and Italy respectufully and will UK be more reactionary?
 
I suspect the UK would be more reactionary if there was an actual Irish uprising which led to a fiscal crisis (and probably an earlier Luddite movement), yes.

Don't forget, the bank of England suspended payments in specie when a couple hundred Frenchman landed in... Fishguard. If Irish revolutionaries take Dublin? Oh boy.
 

Deleted member 14881

I would assume Hoche would attempt a Customs Union and free trade b/t the Republics.

How bad would it be for Ireland will they try and declare an Anglican Democcracy and screw over Catholics and Non conformists?
 
No, because the United Irishmen were backed by Catholics and led by (mostly) Protestants who wanted to establish a secular republic. How viable this would be once Ulster looks like the Vendee or Spain is another question.
 

Deleted member 14881

I read somewhere that Gaelic went into a decline after the potato famine in 1845
 

Deleted member 14881

So if Amiens hold will Louisana be part of France again?
 

Deleted member 14881

like if Hoche didnt reinstate slavery a French Louisiana is possible?
 
(My guess is the two republics would be merged, but I'm not sure what you would call them. The Rhenish Republic?)

That's the best hope, IMO - usually the region's Latin provincial name was used, but 'Upper German Republic' doesn't have the same ring Batavian or Helvetian Republic does. :p Maybe after one of the important cities' Latin names? Aggrippine Republic after part of Cologne's Roman name?

I also wish to bump this topic in general, it's pretty fascinating.
 

Deleted member 14881

If he fused the German Republics together would he do the same in Italy?
 
That's the best hope, IMO - usually the region's Latin provincial name was used, but 'Upper German Republic' doesn't have the same ring Batavian or Helvetian Republic does. :p Maybe after one of the important cities' Latin names? Aggrippine Republic after part of Cologne's Roman name?

The Rhenish Republic was supposed to be the Cisrhenian Republic, but honestly these names were all kicked to the curb during the reaction anyway.
 

Deleted member 14881

The Rhenish Republic was supposed to be the Cisrhenian Republic, but honestly these names were all kicked to the curb during the reaction anyway.

Do you think that the Peace of Amiens was viable?
 
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