WI: HMS Cumberland at the River Plate

Saphroneth

Banned
HMS Cumberland, the strongest of the four ships assigned to Force G (the force which OTL engaged the Graf Spee with only three of the four present) was refitting in the Falklands when the battle took place. Cumberland was a County-class, with eight 8" guns, and thicker armour than the Exeter - so, what happens if she's present along with the Exeter, Ajax and Achilles?
 

HMS Warspite

Saphroneth said:
HMS Cumberland, the strongest of the four ships assigned to Force G (the force which OTL engaged the Graf Spee with only three of the four present) was refitting in the Falklands when the battle took place. Cumberland was a County-class, with eight 8" guns, and thicker armour than the Exeter - so, what happens if she's present along with the Exeter, Ajax and Achilles?
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Basically HMS Cumberland as a Kent Class cruiser was simmilar to HMS Exeter, with just two additional guns on a larger hull, but less armor than HMS Exeter. HMS Exeter was slightly more modern in layout and had a thicker belt, compared to HMS Cumberland, though lacked two guns, compared to the larger ship. A larger ship is a larger target as well, so Graf Spee could have more easily scored hits on HMS Cumberland than on the smaller HMS Exeter.

If Force G had all four ships, ghe outcome was likely stll the eventual loss of the single German cruiser, as four against one is too much a disadvantage. The tactic of a two wing egagement with two groups of two attacking from different sides would have caused simmilar problems for the German ship as in the historical one, forcing it to split fire against two targets. Graf Spee might still have survived to seek refuge in Montevideo, as the British at the time still had no radar and could have lost sight of Graf Spee in darkness, though the outcome would still have been the same with Graf Spee unable to return to Germany due to both propaganda and actual damage.
 

Saphroneth

Banned
Well, I'm thinking there's three options for the German cruiser.

1) Concentrate on Exeter. This lets Cumberland fire unmolested, so there's more than twice the 8" shells hitting it as OTL.
2) Concentrate on Cumberland. This lets Exeter fire unmolested, so there's still about twice the 8" shells hitting as OTL.
3) Split fire. This means twice the shells as OTL, and each British CA takes half as many hits as OTL.

Basically as far as I can see Lanchester Square means the Graf Spee accumulates damage much more quickly and leaves the British CAs much less damaged than OTL.
 

merlin

The question therefore becomes whether the extra 8" shell damage that Graf Spee takes, is likely to be in ant critical area? Can it be slowed done due to hits in the engine room, electrical systems, can command and control be jeopardised by hits to the 'Bridge', can return fire be compromised by knocking out the fire-control directors? Can they safely get in a position to attack with torpedoes, or if they can't sink it, will it be enough to leave as a blazing hulk!??
 

RodentRevolution

Banned
I think the most likely outcome is that the Graf Spee seeks to disengage much earlier or not engage at all.

Langsdorf's original misapprehension was that he faced two destroyers and a heavy cruiser, facing two heavy cruisers in a heavy cruiser even if you think yourself a superior heavy cruiser is a not raider's odds.
 

HMS Warspite

Saphroneth said:
Well, I'm thinking there's three options for the German cruiser.

1) Concentrate on Exeter. This lets Cumberland fire unmolested, so there's more than twice the 8" shells hitting it as OTL.
2) Concentrate on Cumberland. This lets Exeter fire unmolested, so there's still about twice the 8" shells hitting as OTL.
3) Split fire. This means twice the shells as OTL, and each British CA takes half as many hits as OTL.

Basically as far as I can see Lanchester Square means the Graf Spee accumulates damage much more quickly and leaves the British CAs much less damaged than OTL.
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Not entirely corect, as it seemed likely Cumberland would pair up with either Exeter, or one of the light cruisers as a divission, propably Exeter as divisionmate, since Ajax and Achilles were already part of a division. Graf Spee hisorically split fire between Exeter and the two light cruisers, not just one. So it is either the Exeter Group, or the Cumberland group, depending on which one was conidered the bigget threat.
 

HMS Warspite

RodentRevolution said:
I think the most likely outcome is that the Graf Spee seeks to disengage much earlier or not engage at all.

Langsdorf's original misapprehension was that he faced two destroyers and a heavy cruiser, facing two heavy cruisers in a heavy cruiser even if you think yourself a superior heavy cruiser is a not raider's odds.
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Seems reasonable, as Langsdorff had such orders not to engage a superior force.
 

RodentRevolution

Banned
Saphroneth said:
Can she even do that? Cumberland's trials speed is three knots faster - I think the GS has to actually disable or damage the engines of the CAs.
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Well I think that Graf Spee actually spotted the British first and having misidentified them closed in further. As Cymraeg points out if her first action is instead to turn away then it becomes a chase. The advantage is that she is further ahead of the Brits here but she is still as in OTL slower and there are more Royal Navy guns a gunning for her.

All too likely she still has to run to somewhere like Montevideo.

Sinking the Graf Spee in a pursuit is a challenge as for much of the engagement neither side can use its full armaments for at least the first portion of what will be a stern chase.

Of course once the Graf Spee is at bay she is stuck there with none of the what if she came out questions of OTL.
 
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