WI: Hitler shot on July 1, 1940

This is after the surrender of France, and not ASB because obviously Hitler had enemies. Assume that no one knows who did it, because he gets sniped walking into a vehicle. Who would become leader of Germany, and how would this affect the war?
 
Goering. With Goering there would be no war with the USSR. Maybe no war with the US. Peace with the British eventually.

Although, what hed ask for I dont know. Probably not much. Not much at all.

The British wont use biological or chemical. Nukes probably wouldnt be ready until after peace.

Things get interesting if the Nazis get nuked because they retaliate with chemical weapons. Someone may surrender.

If the US geta dragged in due to Nazi subs... Ends with US victory of course.
 
Goering. With Goering there would be no war with the USSR. Maybe no war with the US. Peace with the British eventually.

Although, what hed ask for I dont know. Probably not much. Not much at all.

The British wont use biological or chemical. Nukes probably wouldnt be ready until after peace.

Things get interesting if the Nazis get nuked because they retaliate with chemical weapons. Someone may surrender.

If the US geta dragged in due to Nazi subs... Ends with US victory of course.

Why no war with USSR?
 
He didnt want war with Russia. At least according to himself at Nuremberg. Apparently not a big fan of war
Well, if Goering didn't attack Russia, Stalin would have certainly invaded Germany later on. Churchill wouldn't have surrendered just because of Hitler's death. Years after 1941, the Red Army would have modernized enough to be ready for war. Russia and Germany would have gone to war regardless.
 
Goering takes charge, although his hold on power is gonna be shaky and he might get couped at some point. He was heavily detested within both the Nazis party and much of the army. Barbarossa probably gets scuppered and Germany flails about against the British until the US enters the war in early-1942 at the latest.

Well, if Goering didn't attack Russia, Stalin would have certainly invaded Germany later on. Churchill wouldn't have surrendered just because of Hitler's death. Years after 1941, the Red Army would have modernized enough to be ready for war. Russia and Germany would have gone to war regardless.

Only if Germany is already on her knees and Anglo-American armies are rolling across through the Ruhr. Stalin looked foremost for cheap, quick, and easy victories and even with a rebuilt and reformed Red Army he'd recognize that a war with Germany wouldn't be cheap, quick, and easy.
 
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Tyr Anazasi

Banned
At first Hitler would have been known as one of the greatest Germans. The Fall of France was the zenith of reign. Nearly every German, from Commies to Nazis, was celebrating this. The crimes he did would be relatived, as being of over eager followers, none of which the Führer knew. Remind, "If the Führer knew this" was a quite common phrase in that times, when some subordinaries were executing unpopular tasks.

Göring would take over the power and try to make peace. He would likely keep power not for long, if at all. He would be swept away by an army coup.

The question is, if Britain remains at war. Churchill could argue, Hitler can't be trusted. But Hitler would be gone. Would he be still successful?

Göring, or any other German leader, would not attack the USSR. And Stalin would be too careful to attack the Germans. He wasn't a gambler and only acted, when he was damn sure he would win. And with Hitler gone he would be the second monster left.
 
There was a plan in 1940 to kill Hitler in Paris while he would be reviewing the troops, a group of anti Hitler soldiers were to halt in front of Hitler's reviewing stand and open fire on him and hurl grenades, much the same way that Anwar Sadat was assassinated.
Hitler however changed his plans and returned to Germany instead, Hitler made a practice of changing his plans without giving notice to throw off any assassination attempts.
Call him crazy but he wasn't a total fool.
 
Definitely Goring. He had his own intelligence service, and had a lot of "dirt" on his fellows. His reputation would still be high at this point before the Battle of Britain.

The last 12 months he has been trying to conduct peace negotiations to first prevent the war, and then to come to a peace with Britain. He'd certainly want to do that, and would launch an attack on the Soviet Union with Britain still in the war. What he would do to achieve that I'm not sure. He could I suppose offer to pull out of Norway in return for guaranteed passage of Iron ore from Sweden? Allow Vichy France to occupy most/all of France?

I'm not sure he would suffer a military coup - at least not one as soon as some seem to have imagined. The Luftwaffe would have been fairly loyal.
 

Anchises

Banned
https://books.google.de/books/about/Führerlos.html?id=LjMhAQAAIAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=de

There is an excellent alt history book about it. Unfortunately it is in German only I think.

Hitler is killed in 1939 (Poland is already conquered) and Elser succeds.

Göring acts quickly and takes the power via the "Ministerrat für Reichsverteidigung" (Minister's council for national defense).

The SS is quickly neutralized by a decisive action of Luftwaffe ground troops. It is clearly laid out why the SS could never take power and why neither Himmler nor Heydrich were more than functionaries before the late war.

Göring achieves a peace deal with the west and secures power by bringing back the Kaiser and going through with the Volkswagen scheme. He goes "soft" and reigns the Gestapo in. The Kaiser tries to actually influence policies but Göring makes it clear with rather brutal methods that the state is National Socialist.

War with Russia still happens because the final solution is not possible in peace time while the world watches.

I am not a particular fan of the whole "the Kaiser comes back" subplot but here it makes sense because Goebbels tries to secure power with "Hitler's heir". Eva lied about being pregnant to stay relevant and when Goebbels realized it was lie it was already to late. Göring countered that by bringing back Wilhelm as an identification figure.
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Using this plausible scenario as a basis (minus the plott stuff like Eva's pretend pregnancy etc.):

Göring is even more likely to achieve peace in the West. He holds all the chips in 1940 and is willing to make substantial concessions.

The "Ministerrat für Reichsverteidigung" (council from here on out) probably becomes something similar to the post-Stalin Politbureau. There is a strongmen but several factions wield real influence on policy making. Everyone is trying to prevent the rise of another "absolute ruler".

The Council is where the decisions are made but just like in the Soviet Union there is a parliament as a smoke screen.

The new strongmen won't be called Führer. He will either be "Reichskanzler und Reichspräsident" or will have his own title. "Reichsmarschall" or "Reichsverweser" are good examples.

Persecution and genocide are complicated topics. Sinti and Roma, homosexuals, Jehovas witnesses, Socialists and Communists and other persecuted groups are still killed or "slowly killed" in concentration camps without a doubt.

There is a strong argument that Göring as one of the architects of the final solution would have done something similar to OTLs Holocaust.

I would argue though that in Görings case there is the possibility that he wasn't an ideologue but saw an opportunity to get more power by controlling the process of the Holocaust. So we might see a TL were jews are "merely" being treated as in OTLs 1939/1940 (see the quotation marks, they would be essentially forced into Ghettos in Poland to slowly die).

Interesting for a TL could be a scenario where Göring makes it one of the conditions of a peace treaty to get rid of the jews. Essentially "we pull out of France and Benelux but we get repearations and you have to take all the jews from lands controlled by Germany".

It is anybodys guess what Göring would have done as the man in charge. I would just say that we can't forget the massive pressures in the NSDAP to "solve the jewish question".
 
It is anybodys guess what Göring would have done as the man in charge. I would just say that we can't forget the massive pressures in the NSDAP to "solve the jewish question".


Mmmm.... I think that I have read somewhere in OTL that Göring once said that HE decided who was a "Jew" or not. He did protect a lot of luftwaffe personal would "could" be classified as jew against the Gestapo etc. If going easy on the Jews is the price of get the Allied to sign a deal, he would do it.
 

Anchises

Banned
Mmmm.... I think that I have read somewhere in OTL that Göring once said that HE decided who was a "Jew" or not. He did protect a lot of luftwaffe personal would "could" be classified as jew against the Gestapo etc. If going easy on the Jews is the price of get the Allied to sign a deal, he would do it.

Might be. Depends on what you think about Görings true convictions.

However he is no Hitler. Just saying "hey the jews are reintegrated" won't work. He has to solve the "jewish question" otherwise he risks a coup.
 
Goering takes charge, although his hold on power is gonna be shaky and he might get couped at some point. He was heavily detested within both the Nazis party and much of the army. Barbarossa probably gets scuppered and Germany flails about against the British until the US enters the war in early-1942 at the latest.



Only if Germany is already and Anglo-American armies are rolling across through the Ruhr. Stalin looked foremost for cheap, quick, and easy victories and even with a rebuilt and reformed Red Army he'd recognize that a war with Germany wouldn't be cheap, quick, and easy.

What do you reckon would be

1. the terms Göring would ask for in negotiations with the British
2. the bare minimum he would be willing to accept
3. the bare minimum the British would be willing to accept

?

Would Göring even go for peace at all, or strive to achieve "ultimate victory" in order to solidify his position? Or go the other route, and be hailed as "the Peacemaker" ?
 
In any case, this new version of WWII will leave many Russians and Jews alive. After all, the infamous gas chambers to incinerate bodies at Auschwitz weren't there and may never have been built.
 
Hitler was the main proponent of war with Stalin, if Hitler is gone -no war with Russia. Roosevelt will not join any war in Europe until after Pearl Harbour. No Pearl Harbour= no Pacific War

They would revert back to the pre Hitler Plan and rearmament would continue through the 1940s with heavy trading with USSR & China.

whaaa whaaaa whaaaa , no world war!
 
It depends on if Goering is wise enough to keep the navy in port.

The US wont enter the war otherwise. Goering may agree to the Soviet German Axis. Even Hitler apparently considered it. This further complicates the US going to war with the USSR

In a peace with London

Goering will keep control of Vichy France, Benelux, etc.

The Nazis may choose to annex Vichy France later. They could get French Africa as well.

This is the most they get unless they use sarin for some reason. In which case they'd get the UK as well and the ability to take all the French, British, etc. colonies
 
Goering would assume power as the designated successor. Himmler and the SS are not yet in a position to stop this and have Himmler assume the mantle. Barbarossa is when Germany begins to go from the being a Nazi Hitler run state to an SS Himmler run state with Bormann handling the basic gobermental functions. Goering is also at the height of his power in 1940 as at this point the Luftwaffe has vanquished all opponents save Dunkirk , not suffered defeat in the Battle of Britain, has not been embarrassed by the failures to stop allied bombing and devastation of German cities. Hitler is at the height of his success as is Goering. No Barbarossa in this senario as well as Goering is more interested in his personal power and spoils than risking it starting a 2nd front. The ideological motivation of Hitler and Himmler in the east is not shared by Goering. Not to say he was not anti Semitic , anti slav but it’s business and power to him. The officer Corp would not depose Goering as they viewed him as a military man and even though a Nazi he is viewed as reasonable and rational and not a extreme ideolog. Someone a deal can be made with and not a madman. Goering has in the prior year been putting out peace feelers and trying to prevent general war. Over time if no further offensive actions are taken his credibility may improve and Britain may become war wary enough so that the possibility of peace with Britain is possibility. A compromised offer on Poland for the corridor with pebicites etc could be possible if Goering’s Germany can seem reasonable. Not an easy task at all but possible. While atrocities have happened the mass death camps and holocost have not happened.The fear at this point is German hegemony and if the Soviet Union keeps nibiling at Eastern Europe and Germany does nothing except offer peace perhaps fear of communism helps make peace with A Goering Germany more pallatable. Hitler is viewed as one of the greatest Germans to ever live along with Bismarck, and Fredrick the Great. The crimes committed during his reign to his opponents will be a proof he was evil and despotic but to the majority of Germans it will be more along the lines of excesses by subordinates and/or necessary due to the desperate times to save Germany.
 
Prewar Luftwaffe studies already told Goering that -at that moment - the tactical oriented LW could not wage any war with UK. Killing the Ural Bomber ensured this as did not stockpiling large numbers of medium size bombs ahead of any war.
 
This is after the surrender of France, and not ASB because obviously Hitler had enemies. Assume that no one knows who did it, because he gets sniped walking into a vehicle. Who would become leader of Germany, and how would this affect the war?
Who kills him and why?
Because that has implications, to my mind, on how the German government spins it. Especially if it's genuinely someone 'representative' of people they want an excuse to declare war on, or to discredit in the eyes of neutral countries.
More information required.
If a French soldier who lost comrades during the Fall of France and who is aggrieved at the defeat of his country does it, it's different it seems to me it could produce a different end result from if it's a Jewish Russian Communist...
 
At first Hitler would have been known as one of the greatest Germans. The Fall of France was the zenith of reign. Nearly every German, from Commies to Nazis, was celebrating this. The crimes he did would be relatived, as being of over eager followers, none of which the Führer knew. Remind, "If the Führer knew this" was a quite common phrase in that times, when some subordinaries were executing unpopular tasks.

Göring would take over the power and try to make peace. He would likely keep power not for long, if at all. He would be swept away by an army coup.

The question is, if Britain remains at war. Churchill could argue, Hitler can't be trusted. But Hitler would be gone. Would he be still successful?

Göring, or any other German leader, would not attack the USSR. And Stalin would be too careful to attack the Germans. He wasn't a gambler and only acted, when he was damn sure he would win. And with Hitler gone he would be the second monster left.

That's two years before the infamous Wannsee Conference. So Hitler is likely remembered more favorably by history. The final solution is either butterflied or perpetrated by his successors. In the latter case, the narrative might be that Hitler might have been a racist and antisemite but he never would have taken it to the level Goring did. We'd even see AH timelines where he lives and doesn't try to exterminate Untermenschen.
 
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