WI: Hitler is Killed in WW1

What if Hitler is killed in WW1 during his active duty? This can be from anything from being shot to artillery to gas. Would we see the Nazi party rise as much or would we see the Communist party rise in Germany? What would the effects be? WW2 would still happen because of Versailles but how would it be different politically and diplomatically?
 
More likely Conservative against Communist and Socialist

Hitler was catalyst who made of 1918 obscure bavarian DAP the 1933 mighty NSDAP.
without Hitler DAP would have become a extrem anti-Semitic socialist party, one of many
because the german Left Political forces were divided during Weimar Republic and Stalin not care what happened to Communist in Europe.
without NSDAP the Right and Conservative Political forces could form strong union against the chaotic Left.
with promise of return to Former Glory of German Empire and revenge the treaty of Versailles. they will most attractive for voters.

One this union get to power they will bury the unloved Weimar Republic and declare New Germany
What is not the old empire, because Former Emperor Wilhelm II manage in his arrogance to prevent that !
As his son the crown prince was ask by Conservative to take a political seat in Parlament, Wilhelm II to threaten him with disinheritance, lost of Titles and exclusion from family !
But there enough former german kings and dukes who are willing to become new King of Emperor of new Germany

Will be another World war ? Yes !
Germany wanted revenge for the treaty of Versailles and return to old boundary and there Former Colonies
France, Poland and Belgium will Refuse any demands by New Germany, while Britain under Chamberlain try to get peaceful solution.
in end German army will cross the border of Poland, Belgium and French...
 
Without the NASDAP you probably still get a volkist party but without Hitler's dark charismatic personal it may not be as successful which will open the door for communism. That probably leads to a military coup by '34 and tearing up the treaty. Without Hitler and his insane doctrines we probably see a Germany with more "normal" strategic goals, restore the Kaiseriech borders, anschlass, powerful army/fleet, put poles in their place. Etc.

I expect one of two outcomes, first (given wide spread acceptance the treaty was unfair) Britain does a deal and let's Germany have back a larger army, join with Austria and make some kind of deal over the corridor in exchange for allying aginst the real threat. This would still be communism and since Germany would be anti-communist but not genocidal it would be a more attractive ally.

The second option sees tensions still rise in the later thirties but Germany only does the anschlass (which might be accepted) and fights a border war with Poland for the goal of humbling them and taking the corridor. At that point (having not broken every deal they ever made) Germany negotiates. Basic deal is corridor, vassal status for Poland, navy treaty that allows blue water fleet but not big enough to scare the UK, and no army restrictions.

Since Germany isn't looking to wipeout Poland ITTL and the allies are still scared of repeating WW1 peace probably comes and cold war ensure. At least until worries overy communism for both sides into an enemy of mine enemy position....
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
There would be big butterflies. I could see several different outcomes from this. Is a second World War possible. Oh yes, even very plausible, the same grievances would exist. But certainly not inevitable.
 
The most likely candidate to replace the NSDAP in seizing power when the Weimar Republic collapses and leading Germany into remilitarization and expansion would be the Deutschenationale Volkspartei (DNVP). What follows would depend on the exact circumstances of how it got in charge and how successful it is pursuing rearmament and the alternate versions of the diplomatic maneuvers Hitler pulled off in OTL.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
The most likely candidate to replace the NSDAP in seizing power when the Weimar Republic collapses and leading Germany into remilitarization and expansion would be the Deutschenationale Volkspartei (DNVP). What follows would depend on the exact circumstances of how it got in charge and how successful it is pursuing rearmament and the alternate versions of the diplomatic maneuvers Hitler pulled off in OTL.
Only if you also butterfly Hugenberg away - at least as head of this party, the master of untimely being too late with too little to offer - politically.
 
It's likely that the Freikorps Oberland finds another right-wing party, depending on which way Rudolf von Sebottendorf swings, to act as its official patron. And god so help whoever that is if a particular veterinarian turns up! :eek:
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
The most likely candidate to replace the NSDAP in seizing power when the Weimar Republic collapses and leading Germany into remilitarization and expansion would be the Deutschenationale Volkspartei (DNVP). What follows would depend on the exact circumstances of how it got in charge and how successful it is pursuing rearmament and the alternate versions of the diplomatic maneuvers Hitler pulled off in OTL.

They have to somehow get rid of the "only for rich people" stigma.
 

Deleted member 1487

Baring butterflies von Schleicher would probably be able to work with elements of the far right to prop up a right wing regime perhaps under him in 1932.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
If you're looking for a party to replace the NSDAP ITTL, think about what party Gregor Strasser might have joined.

Why ?

'Cause seemingly he was the only political head of the time, who reflected about the successes and differences of the political parties of his time on the fight for the vote of the masses.
And the most successfull in that respect was ... the SPD (I render Spartakists, USPD, KPD as the offsprings of the SPD they were.)

His conclusion : ORGANIZATION

The SPD was virually the only political party in the Weimar Republic, that had an organization with countrywide division and subdivisions for members, personel, functions, themes and ... money, a political and personel administration, that no other party had at all and an administration for electioneering. They had professional politicians for that.

In a way due to the economical state of their followers and members they needed to develop such a system during the Laiserreich. Only with such a system people NOT being rich enough to 'play' politician could become members of the i.e. Reichstag.

All other parties, including the DNVP, still worked as a 'notables' party, more like a ... club of independant guys more or less similar goals and attitudes with enough money and time to care about politics.
Unfortunatly also with much less of 'party-' or 'fractionary-'discipline.
 

trajen777

Banned
I would see Hindenburg in 25 -- followed by Von Papen forming a government of the Center / Right (more right). Or the other option would be Karl Jarres (who actually was the leader in votes in the first round of the 1925 election) who lost to Hindenburg in the 2nd round of the 25 elections.

Actually don' think i have seen a TL on either of them. Anyway my guess

if :
1. Papen -- he creates a collation of the center / right after Hindenburg wins in 32 and then dies in 34.
2. Army strengthens from 34 - 45.
3. Austria Anchluess -- prob no Sudetenland
4. GB supports Germany keeps France in place (like 35 - 39)
5. Polish cor worked out
6. Germany as it becomes more econ stable and wealthy becomes less interested in war
7. A Euro zone comes into place
8 A cold war with Euro zone & Russia comes forward in the 40's
9. If USSR goes after Baltic states or Finland i see Fr / Germany / GB defending it
 

Deleted member 1487

I would see Hindenburg in 25 -- followed by Von Papen forming a government of the Center / Right (more right). Or the other option would be Karl Jarres (who actually was the leader in votes in the first round of the 1925 election) who lost to Hindenburg in the 2nd round of the 25 elections.

Actually don' think i have seen a TL on either of them. Anyway my guess

if :
1. Papen -- he creates a collation of the center / right after Hindenburg wins in 32 and then dies in 34.
2. Army strengthens from 34 - 45.
3. Austria Anchluess -- prob no Sudetenland
4. GB supports Germany keeps France in place (like 35 - 39)
5. Polish cor worked out
6. Germany as it becomes more econ stable and wealthy becomes less interested in war
7. A Euro zone comes into place
8 A cold war with Euro zone & Russia comes forward in the 40's
9. If USSR goes after Baltic states or Finland i see Fr / Germany / GB defending it

None of the traditional German elite wanted Anschluss, they were biased against Catholics, South Germans, and 'Red' Vienna. It was Austrian Hitler's initiative and the pan-German lower middle class base that supported it. It should also be noted Hitler did have a fair number of Bavarians around him, like Goering, that were interested too.
 
in end German army will cross the border of Poland, Belgium and French...

Without Hitler, German military would not be insane enough to start a war. German wanted to restore its glory, but they were not willing to risk another war which they had not confident in.

When Hitler decided to march to Rhineland in 1936, the military was against the idea.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
None of the traditional German elite wanted Anschluss,....
... and therefore the illfated attempt of the custom-union 1931, that was not only by France but also by foreign-office officials seen as a first step on a in their thinking admittedly loong way to unification ?


TBH
When Hitler decided to march to Rhineland in 1936, the military was against the idea.
they almost pissed in their pants and paniced ... as well as Hitler btw.:D
 

trajen777

Banned
I think by 34- 39 this was massively diminishing and the econ of Austria in its position, as well as the need for mass and Middle Europa would have overcome this. I agree that from the 1850 on this was a driving force
 

Deleted member 1487

... and therefore the illfated attempt of the custom-union 1931, that was not only by France but also by foreign-office officials seen as a first step on a in their thinking admittedly loong way to unification ?
It was an effort to have some economic stability as the world economy started falling apart. By 1932 the Prussians in charge were not concerned about Austria other than the fact that they got burned for messing around with it.
 

NoMommsen

Donor
Talks and negotiations on the custom-union were on the way, even though kept on low profile, not to upset anybody more ... westernish ;), since Brüning took office. Therefore it wasn't something 'quickly patched together', only ... untimey.

And Brüning was quite pissed by the manor it was made public - in what he thought was the most worse possible moment.
He would have be happy if Curtius would have kept his mouth shut for another 2 or 3 months.

The results were :
- France withdrew its loans and credits from Austria, speeding up and worsening the pending bank-crisis considerably.
- France became utter reluctant to the Hoover-Moratorium, delaying it and therefore almost completly spoiling the hope for effect on international finances.
- And finally an International Coutyard decision, making any future attempt of comming closer with Austria almost impossible - at least for 'legalistic' goverments.
 
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