WI-Hitler in America

Geon

Donor
This may or may not qualify as ASB. However, the idea came to me recently and I would like to throw it out for discussion.

Adolf Hitler never visited America. Neither did many of his closest advisors. Hitler was alternately praising and critical of the U.S. in his followup to Mein Kampf, but Hitler did not understand American culture except through second hand sources (films, books, visitors to Germany). He believed the U.S. would stay out of any war in Europe at first and later believed the Americans would not have the resolve for a long and bloody war. He totally underestimated American determination and industrial power.

Now, let us assume that in circa 1936, following the success of the Berlin Olympics, Hitler receives an invitation to visit the U.S. by the German Bund. Under pressure from such figures as Charles Lindbergh, President Roosevelt turns the invitation into an official invitation by the U.S. government. Hitler agrees and arranges to visit during the autumn of 1936.

Hitler arrives via the German zeppelin Hindenberg with him is Goering and a handful of German officials including Albert Speer. For the next month Hitler is hosted by FDR and several other groups and is conducted on a tour of the U.S. from coast to coast.

Hitler returns home with a greater understanding of the U.S. He now knows its strengths (he has seen first hand the skyscrapers of New York, the recently completed Hoover Dam, and several other wonders) and its weaknesses (he has seen the unemployment that still grips the nation and its desire to stay out of issues in Europe).

Here is my question. Having now seen for himself what the U.S. may be capable of what effect does this have in Hitler's future planning? How if at all will this affect World War II? How will Hitler's visit affect the U.S. and U.S. politics?

I await other's thoughts on these matters.

Geon
 
Awaiting Hendryk's less-than-thrilled response to another Hitler thread...

Well, that was constructive.

I'd say that Hitler would be slower to declare war on the US in 1941-42 after a Japanese attack, but, knowing the industrial capacity of the US, would step up U-boat attacks on convoys (perhaps leading to a US entry to the war on grounds similar to its entry in WWI).
 
Hitler prepares better and totally defeats the U.S. in WWII. The difference in economic strength no longer matters if Hitler is aware of it. Especially because he certainly won't delude himself on America's abilities. Also seeing all of the people in the USA will make him think about how many must be in the USSR and prepare for that, too.

With that knowledge everything from 1939 forward will be Nazi-wank. Yeah Hitler.



Or else Hitler dies when the Hindenberg goes up... one or the other...

(On a more serious note an invite from FDR, even pressured by Lindbergh, is indeed pretty ASB... might need a different PoD if you want Hitler touring the USA)
 
Awaiting Hendryk's less-than-thrilled response to another Hitler thread...

Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
SeeLöwe - Seelöwe, SeeLöwe, Die SeeLöwe
Hitler Hitler Hitler...

Could not, would not, resist.

Now seriously: I'm with the pessimists that don't think it would change his worldview very much. However, if the trip was somehow on, and that might be a question worth answering:

How secure was Hitler's position in 1936?
Might he still be the Fuhrer or could someone turn Adolf into The Terminal Man(1) while he's on his US bommel? I might be wrong, but I understand that at no point during his regime did he travel anywhere the Wehrmacht hadn't conquered...

(1) For extra humilliation, I'd have him sent to Ellis Island to queue for inmigration processing. With a boatload of German Jews.
 
...I'd say that Hitler would be slower to declare war on the US in 1941-42 after a Japanese attack, but, knowing the industrial capacity of the US, would step up U-boat attacks on convoys (perhaps leading to a US entry to the war on grounds similar to its entry in WWI).

Unlike the industrial situation in the Soviet Union, the industrial capacity of the US was known all over the world. EVERYBODY in Germany knew it; the only question for the German High Command was how fast the weapons and especially the soldiers could be cranked out. The thinking in Germany was that the war in the East would be over before the USAF, etc., would be in a position to attack.
 
Unlike the industrial situation in the Soviet Union, the industrial capacity of the US was known all over the world. EVERYBODY in Germany knew it; the only question for the German High Command was how fast the weapons and especially the soldiers could be cranked out. The thinking in Germany was that the war in the East would be over before the USAF, etc., would be in a position to attack.

Actually, the situation was known even more closely than that. There wasn't any doubt that the US COULD quickly produce enough trucks, tanks, and aircraft to blanket Europe. Hitler, however, believed that the US WOULDn't intervene in any effective manner. The US was too "soft."

His apparent certainty on the one hand that the US was too morally weak to be a threat and his declaration of war against them is one of those contradictions that only Hitler's insanity can explain.
 

Geon

Donor
Actually, the situation was known even more closely than that. There wasn't any doubt that the US COULD quickly produce enough trucks, tanks, and aircraft to blanket Europe. Hitler, however, believed that the US WOULDn't intervene in any effective manner. The US was too "soft."

His apparent certainty on the one hand that the US was too morally weak to be a threat and his declaration of war against them is one of those contradictions that only Hitler's insanity can explain.

And yet, Goering is quoted as saying "The only things the Americans know how to produce is razor blades and refrigerators."

Further, Hitler may have been insane but he was also nobody's fool.
 
And yet, Goering is quoted as saying "The only things the Americans know how to produce is razor blades and refrigerators."

Well, first please document that he wasn't drunk, high, or stoned when he said that.

Now, if you can find Albert Speer saying something like that, I'll pay attention.
 
I'm reminded of a story where Huey Long beats FDR for the Democratic nomination in '36, wins the election, and, among other things, invites Hitler over for a state visit.

And has him shot.
 

Geon

Donor
Different time period

One thing to remember, in 1936 Hitler was not seen as a raging madman but as the leader whom had brought Germany out of its depression, made Germany a true world power again, and recently hosted a very successful Olympics. In 1936, Hitler was seen as a successful world leader, only "reactionaries" like Churchill saw him as a menace.

Also, consider would Goering's words, which I quoted above be any different if he actually saw the Ford Motor plants and the steel mills? How would Albert Speer react to actually seeing some of the architectural marvels such as the Empire State Building and the recently completed Golden Gate Bridge, as well as the industrial centers of the U.S.?

Geon
 
FDR despised and loathed Hitler; there would be no contact between Der Fuhrer and FDR, official or otherwise. Lindbergh and his America Firsters weren't that influential. Perhaps a better POD would be having Hitler spend a year or two in the U.S after World War I, though how likley that is is anyone's guess
 
FDR despised and loathed Hitler; there would be no contact between Der Fuhrer and FDR, official or otherwise. Lindbergh and his America Firsters weren't that influential. Perhaps a better POD would be having Hitler spend a year or two in the U.S after World War I, though how likley that is is anyone's guess

This. Roosvelt always mantained the most anti-nazi posture of all leaders ( more than Churchill even ).

Inviting him when Germany was already helping Franco is ASB ...

If is a more moderated and less "crazy" Hitler ...
 
Well, having the facts right there before his eyes never swayed Hitler from his delusions OTL, so my gut tells me he sees what he wants to see: endless lines of poverty, lazy Americans watching baseball and building ugly skyscrapers, Jewish-dominated entertainment...all signs of a rotten structure just needing a single kick to knock over. Cue OTL parallelism...and Benny Hill theme music.


Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler Hitler
Mannstein Mannstein
SeeLöwe - Seelöwe, SeeLöwe, Die SeeLöwe
Hitler Hitler Hitler...

Could not, would not, resist.

1. ROFLMFAO!!! :D

2. For resurecting that meme and getting it stuck in my head, I'll have to put the leeches on you now.
 
Hitler goes to America. Then, Hitler is ousted as a homosexual when he is found having sex with J Edgar Hoover. Having nowhere to go to hide from shame, he disguises himself as a Seaplane. Having found a new life in a new body, he also becomes an artist. (Although some don't consider skywriting an art... )
 
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hitler visits new york and sees two new yorkers argue over a seat in a taxi. after witnessing this he decides to give up conquering and go back to art
 
This is sort of like an idea of mine

Hitler arrives in america to make a speech to a meeting of powerful american industrial giants (Henry Ford, Rockefeller...) About half way through his speech a disgruntled worker emerges from the shadows and fires two shots at Der Fuhrer. Both hit their target, but adolf is not dead. He is rushed to the nearest hospital and is in serious condition. Upon arriving at the hospital he is rushed to the emergency room. The doctor whom is to do the operation is jewish. he hears the barely concious hitler make an antisemitic remark. The doctor storms off in a huff. Now hitler being a foreign leader who is in need of medical attenetion is promptly assigned a new doctor who will do the surgery. This doctor is successful and Hitlers life is saved. The doctor tells the recently recovering Fuhrer that he himself is jewish and just because he is jewish that doesnt mean he is any less of a person. Hitler soon departs for Germany.

questions for others

Would hitler change his ways just because his life was saved by a jewish doctor?

If news of this reached Germany would the army/prussian aristocrats launch a coup to get back in power?
 
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