WI: Hitler got into art college

DON'T CALL ME A NEO NAZI FOR THIS! but I wonder if at first Hitler was a traumatised youth, wrong time wrong place sort of thing. Estranged from his father, mother dead, war going on, national depression. He blamed it on the Jews, but maybe one of the key points was when he failed to get into the Academy of Fine Arts in Vienna, and had the potential or talent to back it up. Some people believe that the professor who kicked him out was a Jew, and giving yet more hate material to build on, so make it so he's on at least cordial terms.

So if Hitler was less imbittered, and didn't have to go to the trenches to feel valued, would he have been as screwed up as he was in OTL? Would he still go into politics? Would he still be as radical, but in a more humane way? Would Facism still rise in Germany without such a powerful figurehead?

If you flame it just insult the idea, not me please... :eek:
 
Well. The score against Hitler was actually much worse--both parents dead, Father was abusive, Hitler was left angry, rudderless and found the "mixing bowl" of Austria Hungary to be the problem.

Hitler's probably always going to be a crummy person. His treatment of women was extremely dysfunctional; he would probably remain mean-spirited and aggressive, but at least he'd have a decent living and not seek political action.

Germany is still in a world of hurt in the 1930s, and the looming question is whether without Hitler, Germany keeps some kind of military government under Sciliechter or the KPD comes to power, as it well might. KPD Germany may well be worse than Nazi Germany, because it suggests a Soviet-German Alliance.

Incredible that things can get even worse than they already were.
 
Well. The score against Hitler was actually much worse--both parents dead, Father was abusive, Hitler was left angry, rudderless and found the "mixing bowl" of Austria Hungary to be the problem.

Hitler's probably always going to be a crummy person. His treatment of women was extremely dysfunctional; he would probably remain mean-spirited and aggressive, but at least he'd have a decent living and not seek political action.

Germany is still in a world of hurt in the 1930s, and the looming question is whether without Hitler, Germany keeps some kind of military government under Sciliechter or the KPD comes to power, as it well might. KPD Germany may well be worse than Nazi Germany, because it suggests a Soviet-German Alliance.

Incredible that things can get even worse than they already were.

I've never really been sure what was up with Hitler since there's a lot of stories there, so I tried to stick to what was definite. He hated his father, and his mother died with a jewish doctor attending, and he was a failed artist who went into the army. Became facist. Conquered Europe. Lost Europe. Died.

Thanks for telling me that though.
 
I suspect Hitler would not have gone into politics, had he gone to art school and been successful there. Even once he was ruling Germany he put a lot of energy into building projects, massive architecture, and whatnot. So, I imagine if he is a respected and talented artist, he has no need to go into politics. Now, I have only seen a few examples of his art, and they seem pretty skilled in execution, though the common critique is that they are fairly saccharine in their subject matter...so I suppose "Hitler as the Thomas Kincaid of his day" might be a possibility with this timeline :).

Fascism might rise in Germany in a less bizarre form than it did in OTL. If whoever leads the fascist movement in this TL is less influenced by the odd occult ideas of racial origins and racial purity that so influenced Hitler, you might get a "kinder, gentler German Fascism." I imagine a movement mostly based upon getting revenge for Germany's ill treatment in WWI. It is possible, in fact, that this regime would not persecute the Jews at all: such persecution is not integral to fascism as a system. If the Jews are persecuted by this regime, I would expect it to be less: maybe ghettos and curfews, but not death camps.

I think that fascism would in fact arrise in Germany: the conditions there, and the reasons therefore, were always going to aggravate German pride and cause humiliation. Germany needed someone to get them out of it, and unfortunately in OTL the one who did it was an evil psychopathic murderer. Perhaps if someone who isn't an evil psychopathic murderer would be able to lead Germany out of its economic and military degredation. I don't know where to go from there with it...it would be interesting to see Germany under a "Franco type" dictator: a sort of milder fascist-like dictator who stays in power until well into "modern" times. However, I suspect that Britian and France would look upon a re-militarized Germany with a great deal of concern, and if the Germans couldn't stop themselves from invading their neighbors, an alternate WWII would be inevitable.
 
Another interesting thought: perhaps Hitler becomes a producer of propaganda for the regime. Now, given the nature of his work I suspect that his contribution to propaganda would be rather of the "glorious ancient Germany" variety, rather than hideous caricatures of Jews. In fact, perhaps this would happen:

Hitler is contracted by the propaganda ministry of Fascist Germany (this might require an anschluss, or Hitler has moved permanently to Germany.)

Hitler's art is used to glorify the "German way of life," the ancient glories of German people, etc. His artwork paints a rosy picture, and is well liked by a certain type of German (mostly very sentimental people...probably usually middle-aged mothers).

If there's a war (which seems somewhat inevitable) Hitler could ramp up his propaganda painting, making and reproducing touching images of destroyed cities, the horrors of war, etc., with the goal of making the French and English look like monsters.

Then, years later after Hitler dies a natural death, the very people who liked his art are shocked to learn of his actual personality, as described above by Blue Max. He is slightly discredited, and not quite as many people display their copies of his work anymore (though most people have little idea of who painted the original of the reproduced painting their mother had in her house) so Hitler's art fades into obscurity, as does his name.
 
Until one of his works is brought on to antique roadshow :eek:! I wonder what one of his real world works would go for now days?
docfl
 
Then, years later after Hitler dies a natural death, the very people who liked his art are shocked to learn of his actual personality, as described above by Blue Max. He is slightly discredited, and not quite as many people display their copies of his work anymore (though most people have little idea of who painted the original of the reproduced painting their mother had in her house) so Hitler's art fades into obscurity, as does his name.

I very much doubt that learning of the artist Hitler's personality would impact badly on the popularity of his art. For one thing, everyone knows (in the Pratchett sense, at least) that creative figures are bonkers and they are consequently cut some slack. Wagner had some rather nasty views, and was tainted by the Nazis associating with his music and his family. This doesn't stop us from regarding Wagner's music as incredible, his musicological contribution as tremendous, and performances of his work being popular. If Hitler is a really good artist his works will remain popular; at least, as long as his school of art remains popular.

Now, if he was a mediocre artist, future racial supremacist/German nationalist/whatever groups might, upon learning of his political leanings, elevate his works to some sort of cult status. But the majority would remain indifferent to any revelation.

One thing that would be very interesting: if Hitler becomes really big - as in, known over Europe, if not the world - one of his best known contemporary would be Picasso. I suspect that they would have mutually abhored both one another's politics and artistic styles, which could result in an interesting rivalry.
 
What would be a bit more likely is that with diligence, he could have apprenticed at one of Vienna's architectural firms: most of what I've seen of his work were exteriors of buildings. Had that talent been applied for a paycheck, chances are he would have remained uttely obscure as far as history goes. He probably would have risen to the head of the drafting room / chief designer, and would have lived a solitary, mostly bourgeois life. His name would be unknown outside of those familiar with Viennese architecture of the early 20th century.
 
I doubt our history would change that much. After all there were other nazis before Hitler rose to power and the hatred towards ethnic minorities was common in germany after WW1, Hitler merely gave the face to the nazis. Most likely we would have had the rise of the nazi party with another man as the Führer, who may or may not have followed another path that Hitler did on OTL
 
The film Max suggests an interesting, if not altogether plausible, speculation of what might have happened to Hitler if he had been recognized as an artist or designer in the immediate post-war period. Regarding Germany, it is reasonable to suspect some sort of Fascism would have begome a major political force in post-Great War Germany. Without the magnetic and driven personality of Hitler, however, one wonders if it would have become the successful mass movement it did in OTL.
 
What would be a bit more likely is that with diligence, he could have apprenticed at one of Vienna's architectural firms: most of what I've seen of his work were exteriors of buildings. Had that talent been applied for a paycheck, chances are he would have remained uttely obscure as far as history goes. He probably would have risen to the head of the drafting room / chief designer, and would have lived a solitary, mostly bourgeois life. His name would be unknown outside of those familiar with Viennese architecture of the early 20th century.

I suspect you may be giving Hitler too much credit for sociability. Although He had some undeniable technical skill, everything I have read about him would suggest he was too unstable and self-important to be satisfied with a drafting job. He believed he was an "artist" and would have probably had a hard time keeping a regular drafting or graphic design positions. He would have probably gone from job to job and eventually ended up on the street in the Depression anyway.
 

Hyperion

Banned
I suspect you may be giving Hitler too much credit for sociability. Although He had some undeniable technical skill, everything I have read about him would suggest he was too unstable and self-important to be satisfied with a drafting job. He believed he was an "artist" and would have probably had a hard time keeping a regular drafting or graphic design positions. He would have probably gone from job to job and eventually ended up on the street in the Depression anyway.

This may actually be helpful if he pursued architecture more than simple art.

The academy in Vienna did have an architecture department.

Maybe not what he initially had in mind, but if it got him in the door....
 
This may actually be helpful if he pursued architecture more than simple art.

The academy in Vienna did have an architecture department.

Maybe not what he initially had in mind, but if it got him in the door....

From what I understand he was rejected from art school because he could not draw people. If he would have focused on architecture instead, he might have made it.
 

Hyperion

Banned
Here is a further WI.

Suppose that for a miraculous reason, he gets into the school, studies art, architecture, whatever, graduates and I guess gets some sort of degree in the process.

Even if it isn't a military school, would having a degree in general have an effect in his time in the military during WW1?

From what I've seen in biographies, it was suggested that he resented a number of superior officers that where of Jewish religion, or who he thought where of Jewish origin.
 
Top