WI Hitler doesnot attack Greece in 1941?

This meeting exactly fueled the rumours that Metaxas was poisoned by the British... Metaxas died suddenly 12 days later in the hands of a British doctor...

I am glad you say rumours....are anybody today taking them seriously?....quite a conspiracy theory....and quite a news story with potential big backlash for the UK, if it was the case.
 
Could it be that Metaxas was doing basically what Franco did with Hitler, making demands he knew couldn't be met as a way of rejecting the proposal without openly doing so and risking alienating the British in case he needed them later?

Steve

Proberly so, out of his fear of provoking germany.

In fact he was closing his eyes to the cold hard realities; that German forces was amassing in great numbers in Bulgaria....and that Yugoslavia would be little help in the Greek defense....

but even if British forces had been deployed earlier, I doubt seriously that Greece could have been saved. Had the Greek forces at an earlier stage pulled out of Albania and Eastern Greece a more coherrent line of defence could have been created....but Greek national pride and internal politics prevented this solution.
 
I am glad you say rumours....are anybody today taking them seriously?....quite a conspiracy theory....and quite a news story with potential big backlash for the UK, if it was the case.

Rumours or not the way he died and the date are at least suspicious... And propably we will never know if he was assassinated or happened to die in the wrong time...
I ve met a lot of people in Greece who actually believe that... But as i said above we will propably never know...
 
Rumours or not the way he died and the date are at least suspicious... And propably we will never know if he was assassinated or happened to die in the wrong time...
I ve met a lot of people in Greece who actually believe that... But as i said above we will propably never know...

Wasn't there an autopsy carried out?.....That might shed some light on the matter.
 
Wasn't there an autopsy carried out?.....That might shed some light on the matter.

Well if he was assassinated why tell that to the people and cause problems? General Papagos and King George II wanted the British... And the last thing they wanted to have at this point is an angry mob accusing them and the British for the "assassination" of Metaxas... If he was assassinated it was pretty much concealed... If he wasnt he just died in the wrong time... We will never know...
P.S. The final entry in Metaxas Diary is on 17 January right after meeting the British... In this entry he says that he refused British troops unless Germans enter Yugoslavia (he was certain that if Germans conquered or lured Yugoslavia Greece was next)...
 

loughery111

Banned
Well had Prime Minister Metaxas lived instead of dying in 29 Janury 1941 and British wouldnt have been allowed to enter Greece...
Metaxas was opposed to the idea of allowing British to send him a brigade to help him beacause he was afraid that this might have caused Hitler's wrath. And his sudden death sparked scenarios saying that he was poisoned by British agents (his doctor was british).
So if Metaxas survives and still doesnt allow British to enter Greece i tend to believe that Hitler would have let Mussolini to clean up his own mess...

If Metaxas survived there is no way that Churchill would have taken bases etc. in Greece... Thats why his sudden death sparked conspiracy theories that he was poisoned... His successor A. Korizis gave permission to British to enter Greece and then ka-boom!! 2 months later Germans were invading...
With Metaxas alive i am sure that Hitler wouldn bother to save Mussolini's ass...

Still the Brits would do anything to lure Greece to their side... Even if it means assassinating the Prime Minister... (The rumour that he was murdered by British persists even today)

Νope... Metaxas firmly forbidden British presence in Greece... He was afraid that as soon as he allowed British in Greece Hitler would attack instantly...
However Metaxas died suddenly in 29 January 1941 and his successor (handpicked by King George II who was anglophile while metaxas was more or less germanophile) A. Koryzis gave permission to the British to enter Greece in February... 2 months later Hitler attacks...
My guess is that if Greeks alone are insubordinate he could deal with them... Hitler wouldnt care if Mussolini was beaten as long as his flank was protected... But Greeks and British allied would be too much danger in Hitler's flank...

This meeting exactly fueled the rumours that Metaxas was poisoned by the British... Metaxas died suddenly 12 days later in the hands of a British doctor...

This could be a possibility... General Papagos and King George II pressed Metaxas to accept British help but he kept denying that... Metaxas could have negotiated with the brits so as not to dissapoint the King and his chief of staff but kept making extraorbitant requests in order to keep the Brits out and not provoke Hitler for the time being... If Hitler attacked Greece then Metaxas could have asked Churchill to send anything he got no requests no anything.
However his sudden death 10 days after meeting with british officers is suspicious and especially in the hands of a british doctor (it is recorded that the british doctor gave him an injection to calm him down until his austrian/german doctor arrives the next day... however 15 mins after the injection died all of a sudden).
His successor A. Koryzis gave immediate permission to Churchill to send army and after exactly 2 months Germany launched a surprise attack...

Rumours or not the way he died and the date are at least suspicious... And propably we will never know if he was assassinated or happened to die in the wrong time...
I ve met a lot of people in Greece who actually believe that... But as i said above we will propably never know...

Well if he was assassinated why tell that to the people and cause problems? General Papagos and King George II wanted the British... And the last thing they wanted to have at this point is an angry mob accusing them and the British for the "assassination" of Metaxas... If he was assassinated it was pretty much concealed... If he wasnt he just died in the wrong time... We will never know...
P.S. The final entry in Metaxas Diary is on 17 January right after meeting the British... In this entry he says that he refused British troops unless Germans enter Yugoslavia (he was certain that if Germans conquered or lured Yugoslavia Greece was next)...


Alright, you've said it 8 times. Do you care to produce actual evidence, or do you wish to keep repeating the same two to three sentences in different combinations over and over again in the hopes that we will forget you've yet to prove them?
 
I cant confirm or deny the rumours... I am sorry if i repeated them... But this is what i believe... I cant prove that he was murdered or not but nobody can deny that this could be an option...
 

loughery111

Banned
I cant confirm or deny the rumours... I am sorry if i repeated them... But this is what i believe... I cant prove that he was murdered or not but nobody can deny that this could be an option...

(Sighs) Ok, lemme go amend my reading list. Know of any decent English-language books on the topic?

Anyway, my point wasn't that they couldn't possibly be true; if no one conducted an autopsy, we'll never know. It was simply that you don't need to repeat it eight times in three pages; we got it after the first one, or maybe two. You even used the same phrasing more than once! :p
 
(Sighs) Ok, lemme go amend my reading list. Know of any decent English-language books on the topic?

Anyway, my point wasn't that they couldn't possibly be true; if no one conducted an autopsy, we'll never know. It was simply that you don't need to repeat it eight times in three pages; we got it after the first one, or maybe two. You even used the same phrasing more than once! :p

I ll see what i can find...
 
Well if he was assassinated why tell that to the people and cause problems? General Papagos and King George II wanted the British... And the last thing they wanted to have at this point is an angry mob accusing them and the British for the "assassination" of Metaxas... If he was assassinated it was pretty much concealed... If he wasnt he just died in the wrong time... We will never know...
P.S. The final entry in Metaxas Diary is on 17 January right after meeting the British... In this entry he says that he refused British troops unless Germans enter Yugoslavia (he was certain that if Germans conquered or lured Yugoslavia Greece was next)...

Okay....if it was that big of a conspiracy, it would proberly have been easier for Greeks to poison him...than have the British do it.....

As loughery111 have also stated, I would also like to read a little more on the topic....it is the first time I have heard of this theory (But I am also not Greek).
 
In 28 October 1940 Italians launched a surprise attack against Greece across the greek-albanian borders... After some initial success their advance halted and greek army launched his counter-attack and pushed them back...
By early spring 1941 Italians were retreating having lost about 1/3 of Albania when Hitler attacked Greece in 6 April 1941 after calls for help by Mussolini...
WI Hitler had denied to help Mussolini in his struggle and spare his troops for Operation Barbarossa?
Hitler is more successfull in Russia?
Mussolini would keep fighting or he would negotiate a peace treaty with Greece?

knowing about the entente of 1917, hitler needs to bring this area in his hands.

so i has to attack
only a early italian victory could avoid it - or no attack at all.

In this case the germans come in deep trouble if the brits invade greece (basicly they did in 1917) and try to disrupt german oil support.

Sure, greek patisans and maybe the army will fight but the big question is "how long"?
If the germans attack one month earlier (this will not happen cause of bad weather, 2 weeks is the best) things get interested. the brits are way to weak to hold greece even against low german forces... in 1941/42 they are no enemy in such position (they need to tranport the whole stuff by sea (german airforce has plenty airfields), greec partisans try to disrupt british forces... german army, if concentrates, will beat any british army in 1941/42. The british losses will be brutal, a secon dünkirchen, just without the ships to rescue the troops.

For hitler, this could be better as historically...

a funny ah... :) "last stand at mykene", the way 500.000 british troops get captured, 200.000 dead, 300.000 prisoners.

This caused also the quick loss of malaya and australia...

yes - really interesting and fun.
 

Cook

Banned
Rumours or not the way he died and the date are at least suspicious...

There is no mention of any plot to assassinate Metaxas in British SIS records of the period.

Wavell didn’t believe that the British had enough forces in the Mediterranean to hold against a German offensive and, like Metaxas, thought the presence of British forces could only inspire a German attack that they couldn’t resist. It was however a political decision for political reasons overruling military considerations.

Britain’s offer of assistance to Metaxas’s Greece is consistent with the British policy of helping anyone who was willing to fight Hitler or Mussolini. It was also offered as part of a plan for a combined Balkans front involving Greece, Turkey and, as a long shot, Yugoslavia. The Greeks declined, so did the Turks, and Yugoslavia was swinging the other way before dissolving into a coup.
 
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