WI Hitler dies in January 1939?

King Thomas

Banned
Of the cancer that in OTL killed Chamberlane in 1940? (sorry about my horrible spelling.) Do we still see a WW2? And if we don't, how long does Germany,Austria and the Sudetanland stay Nazi for?

(This is not meant to be a Naziwank, just to see what happens without Hitler basicly trying to conquer most of the world.)
 
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I think there would still be a world war II, with other nazis taking over. Though the military might have more control than it did OTL.
 
No war with the USSR. Potential still for war in the West, especially if Poland is still invaded. REgardless, it's Goering running the country in the interim.
 
Goering would be the most likely successor and would have been a very different sort of Fuerher. This would be after the Munich Agreement and before Czechoslavakia was destroyed. At this point the West was beginning to rearm and was wary, but Chamberlain still believed that diplomacy could win out.

I can't see Goering risking war over the Czech lands, Danzig, or Poland. He was not the sort to take what he knew were huge risks and cared a lot more about prestige and creature comforts than about Lebensraum. Goering would try to come to terms with the West and would not risk war anywhere unless he was sure it could be done without risking confrontation with another power.

Nazi policies would still be carried out internally and I am sure the Jews will still have a very hard time of it, but I don't see a Holocaust as even a remote possibility with Goering in charge. The Jews would be encouraged to immigrate and would be discriminated against, but they are not going to be rounded up and slaughtered. It will probably be about as bad as Czarist Russia was, maybe a bit worse.

Goering seems to have a lot more in common with Mussolini as a leader than Hitler.
 
Goering inherits a Germany that is at its greatest extent and includes all Germans except for Danzig. He pretty much has everything he would want in Europe. His foreign policy aims were much more in the Wilhelmine Imperialist mode than Hitler's belief in Lebensraum.

I think the rest of Czechoslovakia is likely to be left alone. He may begin negotiations with Poland over Danzig and a secure land access route to East Prussia. IOTL, Ribbentropp asked for this in October 1938 in exchange for an extension of the German-Polish Non-Aggression. That was turned down so soon after the seizure of the Sudetenland. But with Hitler gone and Goering refraining from other actions, some sort of agreement is theoretically possible.

If Goering can achieve that, he'll boost his popularity with a substantial foreign policy victory of his own. Then I think he'll move to the two areas he probably wants most - 1) increased respectability with the Western powers, and 2) recovery of former German colonies. After consolidating power at home, I could see Goering going on some kind of "charm offensive" in France and Britain to reassure them of his peaceful intentions and gain support for the return of some colonies. It might work, although German colonial gains would be limited and paid for by some kind of concession.

I don't see Goering starting any major war unless major German interests were at risk, or if the war would be limited in nature. So I see World War II being avoided. Presumably, Goering is able to maintain some kind of anti-Bolshevik consensus in Europe and contain the Soviet Union.

He would likely offer his services to mediate the Sino-Japanese War, although it's likely the Japanese have dug themsleves too big a hole that they can accept any reasonable peace and still save face. If it ever happened though, he'd have huge prestige.

With no war in Europe in 1940, FDR does not run for a third term nor would Wilkie get the GOP nomination. We have an entirely different 1940 election. Maybe James Farley versus Robert Taft?

There'd also be a UK general election in 1940. I think the Conservatives would have won since they secured "peace in our time" although with Chamberlain dying of cancer, someone else would be PM. It won't be Churchill. It can't be Halifax. Perhaps Eden? Who would be the most likely candidate.

I think Europe will shuffle along without too much incident. There might be concerns of the USSR, and there might be a growing "European Position" in regards to the Sino-Japanese War, but I don't see either turning into a war.
 
Just to further what Blackfox says, ITTL there is no Pacific War, period. Japan knows that the Royal Navy and Marine Nationale are going to come down on them like a ton of bricks in addition to the US Navy if they try to seize Borneo's oil fields, so they have no chance at victory. Similarly, while they might try provoking the Soviets, those skirmishes will probably turn out the way that they did OTL (ie., with the Japanese badly losing), so they aren't going to "strike north" either. In the end, most likely the Second Sino-Japanese War ends in a peace of exhaustion for Japan when they simply can't continue the fight and have no even vaguely realistic way of grabbing the supplies they need to keep going.
 
Remember that Göring became Hitler's heir in 1941. From 1933 until 1941 Rudolf Heß was the Führer's deputy and thus would become the next Führer if Hitler died. But it is quite possible that the death of Hitler would lead to a civil war.
 
Remember that Göring became Hitler's heir in 1941. From 1933 until 1941 Rudolf Heß was the Führer's deputy and thus would become the next Führer if Hitler died. But it is quite possible that the death of Hitler would lead to a civil war.

Of course, Hess was nuttier than a fruitcake, so it's entirely possible that he just gets shouldered quietly aside, or, as you say, a civil war breaks out between more conservative and more Nazi groups or some such.
 
Declaring Heß mad was used as explanation for his flight to Scottland, but Hitler himself said that he was not mad but tried to enlist the help of the British peace movement to end the war against the United Kingdom.
If Heß became Führer and civil war was unavoidable because certain groups (Himmler and his SS) would have felt betrayed. Even Göring would have worked against Heß. The Wehrmacht would have either stayed neutral or divided between the different factions.
 

Cook

Banned
Remember that Göring became Hitler's heir in 1941. From 1933 until 1941 Rudolf Heß was the Führer's deputy and thus would become the next Führer if Hitler died...

Actually no:

Herman Goering was secretly named as Hitler’s successor on 23 April 1938.

-1938: Hitler’s Gamble by Giles Macdonogh.

With Goering as Fuhrer Germany’s foreign and domestic policies would have changed significantly.

First and most importantly Goering had no wish to go to war. He was finally comfortable and wanted to enjoy the life he now had. He was a new father and happy as such on the domestic side, and everywhere he went he received a rock-star reception. Further same border adjustments would be likely but nothing that threatened war.

Ribbentrop would have lost his position as Foreign Minister almost immediately; Goering considered him to be an idiot (and rightly so). Constantin von Neurath would most likely have been recalled to the top job; he was most experienced, had a good track record and he worked well with Goering.

Goebbels would have had his power drastically reduced; they seldom agreed on anything, Goebbels represented the left of the party, Goering the right.

Autarky, the Nazi policy of making Germany self-sufficient would be dropped or reduced in priority; Goering was very well aware of the damage this had done to the economy.

Anti-Semitism would have continued most likely as it was at the time, with the formula the Eichmann had already developed; make it insufferable to stay and fleece them completely before they go, with the wealthy Jews paying their own cost of departure and that of the poorer Jews who couldn’t pay for themselves.

Goering was, from his experience with the four year plan, well aware of Germany’s shaky economy and crumbling infrastructure; investments in the nation’s factories and other infrastructure and away from the massive, and now largely unnecessary, rearmament program would likely follow.
 
Actually no:

Herman Goering was secretly named as Hitler’s successor on 23 April 1938.


-1938: Hitler’s Gamble by Giles Macdonogh.
If that's your only source ...
Remember that Hitler excluded Göring from foreign politics because Göring did not want war, something Hitler wanted. But Göring was named Hitler's successor on the first day of World War II (1 September 1939). If he was already his secret successor is the perfect way into a civil war between those for whom Heß is the rightful Führer and those who will follow Göring.

BTW a much better PoD would be if the Night of Long Knives had been a complete failure (Röhm and consorts have been forewarned and struck first.)
 
As LOTLOF wrote: Goering had a lot in common with Mussolini. Which still means that he can embark Germany on some pointless and bloody military adventures, or that these adventures will not inadvertently grow into a general European war.

How likely would it be that Goering would want a rematch of WW1 in the west - let's say to get Alsace and Lorraine back again?
 

Cook

Banned
Goering...
How likely would it be that Goering would want a rematch of WW1 in the west - let's say to get Alsace and Lorraine back again?

None at all. Prior to the Munich conference he was terrified that Germany was about to find itself at war with Britain and France. It was only complete acquiescence of the democracies at Munich and their later indifference that made him confident that they would not act when Germany attacked Poland.

With Hitler gone Goering would have been much more cautious and much more inclined to enjoy his life.
 
Goering wouldn't become fuhrer and neither would himmler or heydrich.... jan 1939 is way too close to their ousting of fritsch which pissed off the army; and nobody is ruling without the support of the army

By law at that point it would be Hess who was deputy fuhrer... if he didn't want it or was so distraught by Hitler's death that he couldn't function as a national leader... my metaphorical dollar would go down one of three ways

1. military junta based either on braustich or someone operating with braustich's support
2. continued reign of the nazi's under ribbentrop; but a MUCH softer and less outwardly douchey reign (Ribbentrop had good relations with the army and the waffen ss but not Himmler himself) Ribbentrop at least kind of cared about world opinion of Germany and Germany's diplomatic position
3. a return to a multi party democracy following an army rule/transition
 
Concerning the Jews, I believe that even with continued Nazi rule, under say Goering, the anti-Jewish policies might roughly continue, so that by some point in the early to mid 1940's, all Jews would have been safely expelled/emigrated from Germany/Austria. Jewish immigration was really taking off in the late 1930's
and a few more years of that would have lead to such a situation.
 
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