WI:Hitler declares war on Japan after Pearl Harbour

Yesterday morning the Empire of Japan unleashed an attack of extraordinary and unproked agression by launching a massive raid against the United States Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbour. This hostile act against our friend the peace loving United States along with a joint Japanese conspiracy to betray us and ally with the Soviet Union as well as it's continuing war of extermination against our Chinese friends leaves us only one course of action, the German Reich now considers itself in a Sate of war with the Empire of Japan. May God fight with us in the coming battle against Far Eastern aggression

So what happens next?
 
Wow...that's one that wouldn't have crossed my mind. I'm not sure I can see it happening...would America want Germany's help? And another factor is that even with a declaration of war, I don't see much involvement by Germany in the pacific theater. Germany had bigger fish to fry.
You mention the Japanese working in 'a conspiracy' with the USSR...now if this were true, or percieved by the general public and the US government to be true, it could cause the US and the UK not to ally with the USSR...
 
Well the first thought is that the US really can't enter the war in Europe. But why would Hitler stab his ally in the back, in order to join the United States. The United States wasn't the military, economic and industrial powerhouse it is today, or even that it was at the end of the war. I doubt Hitler saw the US as a major problem at the time, it's only hindsight that really shows his decision to declare war as particularly insane. Hitler likely thought that the US would go fight Japan while he mopped up Europe, and by the time they were in any position to challenge him, there'd be no way they could realistically do so. That's probably not a crazy thing to think, given the information he'd have available to him either, he'd have no way to know that the US would concentrate on Europe rather than on the nation that actually attacked it, so a show of solidarity with Japan, Germany's nominal ally, would seem the logical course.

In short, without Hitler having access to a history book from the future, I don't see why he'd declare war on Japan over the United States.
 
Well the first thought is that the US really can't enter the war in Europe. But why would Hitler stab his ally in the back, in order to join the United States.

I think you just answered you're own question there :)

I don't see much involvement by Germany in the pacific theater. Germany had bigger fish to fry.
You mention the Japanese working in 'a conspiracy' with the USSR...now if this were true, or percieved by the general public and the US government to be true, it could cause the US and the UK not to ally with the USSR...

I don't think that Germany really needs to get involved in the Pacific, Japan can't touch them and his goal wasn't really destroying Jpan as much as keeping Ameri ca out of Europe.

Some of his Inner Circle is going to have the Fuhrer committeed to the nut house for that move.

Why? It's the best chance to keep America out of Europe.
 
That makes no sense. Germany would not just out of nowhere declare war on Japan without some major buterflies.
 
I think you just answered you're own question there :)
Not really because I go on to point out that Hitler wouldn't see that as an issue anyway. He'd only see America coming into the European theatre as an issue if he had a history book from the future, or some other way of knowing America's Europe first strategy. Since logically he'd expect America to concentrate on Japan, leaving things alone in Europe, it doesn't answer my objection. All it does is put Hitler in the same position he'd expect to be in if he declared war on America, but loses him an ally and gains him an enemy. So why would he do it?
I don't think that Germany really needs to get involved in the Pacific, Japan can't touch them and his goal wasn't really destroying Jpan as much as keeping Ameri ca out of Europe.
Your logic for why Germany wouldn't need to fight Japan in the Pacific, works equally well for why Germany wouldn't need to fight America in Europe. Germany isn't in the Pacific, and America isn't in Europe. If Hitler thinks declaring war on Japan is a meaningless gesture, why would he think siding with his ally and declaring war on America all the way across the Atlantic, which he'd reasonably expect to be preoccupied with Japan, be any more of a meaningless gesture?
 
Oooh, I like it. It's the sort of devious, confusing, Black Swan-ish thing that would really shake up everyone. It fits perfectly with Hitler's racist views -- why support those Asian undermenschen (sp?) on the other side of the globe over apartheid America? Hitler was well aware of the US industrial capacity and resources and what they would mean during the war -- IIRC his reasoning in declaring war was that he could fort up in western Europe long enough to take care of the USSR, then negotiate with Britain and the US from a position of strength. But declaring war on Japan is even better from a geopolitical POV. Cripes, I'm glad he didn't think of it.
 
All you'd need for this one is stronger Sino-German relations. Not a hard thing really being Germany had a lot invested into China before Hilter decided Japan would make a better wartime ally.

Things didn't go sour into Hitler recognized Mancukuo and cut off all German assistanced to the KMT.
 
Some of his Inner Circle is going to have the Fuhrer committeed to the nut house for that move.

One of the nice things about being the supreme leader is that aint going to happen. IIRC Hitler's actions demonstrated a healthy respect for US military potential. Among other things, he restrained the German Navy against (in some sense justifiable) actions that could be used as pretexts for the US coming into the war.

As I understand it, his sequel to Mein Kampf revolved around a showdown with the US for World dominance. Part of it had to do with the US being the beneficiary of Europe's most dynamic racial stock yadda yadda.
 

King Thomas

Banned
If the USA does not declare war on Hitler, then sooner or later the Soviets end up at the English Channel. That or the Nazis beat them back-either way we get a very nasty world out of it.
 
He may be able to do, but he certainly won't be able to do much to back it up. I mean, how can Germany project force across half the world with a big red blob called the USSR blocking it?
 
Roosevelt makes a very snarky speech about Hitler's complete and utter untrustworthiness, spells out in very small words the difference between "ally" and "co-belligerent" and asks how many carriers Hitler is going to send to the Pacific. In the meantime, lend-lease continues to flow to the USSR and the UK, andthe undeclared naval war in the Atlantic goes on, unless Hitler also calls off the submarine warfare against the UK.

Bruce
 

Sachyriel

Banned
I think the Americans would still team up with the Allies to fight Japan and Germany. After all the British were already fighting them and had a better chance of helping the US succeed since Germany can't really ship divisions to fight in the Pacific. Also if Canada is at war with Germany and the U.S.A. chooses Hitler's side then War probably comes to the NA mainland (which the US doesn't want).
 
I think the Americans would still team up with the Allies to fight Japan and Germany. After all the British were already fighting them and had a better chance of helping the US succeed since Germany can't really ship divisions to fight in the Pacific. Also if Canada is at war with Germany and the U.S.A. chooses Hitler's side then War probably comes to the NA mainland (which the US doesn't want).

Canada attacking the US? What do they put in that maple syrup? :p;)
 
I think the Americans would still team up with the Allies to fight Japan and Germany. After all the British were already fighting them and had a better chance of helping the US succeed since Germany can't really ship divisions to fight in the Pacific. Also if Canada is at war with Germany and the U.S.A. chooses Hitler's side then War probably comes to the NA mainland (which the US doesn't want).

Unless Nazi mad scientists have replaced Roosevelt's brain with that of Charles Lindberg or perhaps Father Coughlin, there is no way in all the innumerable Buddhist hells that the US will ally with Hitler.

Bruce
 
Yesterday morning the Empire of Japan unleashed an attack of extraordinary and unproked agression by launching a massive raid against the United States Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbour. This hostile act against our friend the peace loving United States along with a joint Japanese conspiracy to betray us and ally with the Soviet Union as well as it's continuing war of extermination against our Chinese friends leaves us only one course of action, the German Reich now considers itself in a Sate of war with the Empire of Japan. May God fight with us in the coming battle against Far Eastern aggression

So what happens next?
This has been brought up a number of times as a kind of super-Machiavellian ruse to avoid an American declaration of war on Germany. As B_Munro has already pointed out, there is no way in hell that it could have worked that way. If Hitler had really been stupid enough to try it, then Roosevelt and his advisers are bound to notice that Germany intends to fight both against and for Britain at the same time, with relatively large forces in North Africa and on the High Seas against Britain, and only with token forces against Britain's enemy Japan. Hitler's declaration of war against Japan would therefore be immediately recognized as the transparent ploy that it is and would utterly fail to achieve its purpose, meaning that there would be an American declaration of war on Germany sooner or later.

Since all this is more or less predictable, not even Hitler would be stupid enough to try it. But just assuming that he was that stupid, then it might even hasten the German defeat, by eliminating what little collaboration there was between Germany and Japan in OTL. The collaboration between these two Axis nation was far less intensive than that between the Allies, partly because of the geographical distance between them, and partly because of distrust between these aggressive dictatorships. Still, there was some co-operation, with Japan sending rubber and other strategic material via blockade runnners to Germany as late as 1943, later they might have sent limited amounts via submarine. Germany sent military hardware such as 20mm cannon, jet engines and blueprints to Japan, and German U-boats operated in the Indian Ocean from bases in Japanese - occupied South East Asia. If Germany declares war on Japan, even this limited amount of co-operation might not happen, and Germany will face even greater difficulties putting tires on its trucks and rubber bandages on the wheels of its tanks.
 
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