WI: Hindu Nationalist Indian independence movement

Srihari14

Banned
Hindu Nationalist India is possible
  • Gandhi never exists
  • Congress is more Hindu oriented
  • Partition divides India into Hindu and Islamic nations
  • Sikhism, Jainism and Buddhism would be tolerated and accepted as right wing Hindus consider them part of Hinduism
  • Christians in Kerala and north east are screwed
  • Bloodier partition
  • Expect the refugees from Pakistan to settle in Kashmir to religiously change the demographics
  • Kerala and Hyderabad are going to be bloodbaths for non Hindus
  • Israel and India have closer relations
  • Unless Hindus solve caste , they can never win support of dalits, thus that needs to be sorted out as well
 
How are the Hindu nationalists going to even agree on what Hinduism is? There's a lot of regional variances, it'd be like trying to consolidate, say all Protestants in one nation under theocratic rule.
What is the necessity for any agreement on philosophy or spirituality? Agreement is required only in political ideology and programs. V.D.Savarkar, who was the President of Hindu Maha Sabha was the person who coined the term "Hindutva", later adopted by RSS and BJP. He was also an accused in the Mahatma Gandhi assassination case. It is said that he was an atheist by belief.
Similarly M.A.Jinnah was a person who never visited a mosque till he joined the Muslim League. Islam prohibits liquor and also pork. Jinnah used to drink whisky and taste pork. He disliked the Moulvis and similar people and used to ridicule them till he came into the League. He never wore the Muslim dress and was always sporting western dress till he took up the leadership of Muslim League. There are atheists in the leadership of Hindu Nationalist organisations also. Many cults in Hinduism like Arya Samaj and Lingayats who oppose idol worship. But there is no disputes between those who worship idols and oppose it. The quarrels between groups and castes occur only when the case of sharing power and money comes up.
 
This will cause decades of chaos and violence. Hindu fundamentalists will drag down India, just like Islamic fundamentalists will drag down Pakistan.
 
You definitely need a pre-1900 POD for this. Since the time of Ram Mohan Roy, Indian nationalism was vehemently secular and hotly opposed to Hinduism in government. Even Tilak worked with the Theosophist Annie Besant despite being a firm believer in “Hindu rights” including child marriage (using arguments that sound a lot like Christian fundamentalists’ support of homophobic bakers), and supported placing the Islamic crescent on some sort of Indian flag in addition to Hindu symbols. BTW, it's ASB for Tilak to lead the Indian nationalist movement because he believed that Marathas should be demoted to Shudra status, and Marathas were some of the most important supporters of Indian nationalism. The fact that Hindu nationalists believed that Marathas should be demoted alone discredited Hindu nationalism for decades. Hindu nationalism IOTL only got over that by viewing caste with disdain, to the extent that the current BJP President of India is a Dalit. I think it's very difficult to get Hindu nationalism to get over the caste issue.

All I can really think of is a successful Indian Mutiny, resulting in an independent neo-Maratha Empire led by Nana Sahib with the Rani of Jhansi as his deputy of sorts. I can easily see this state, led by Brahmins (despite its name, Brahmins rather than Marathas led the Maratha Empire as well as the Marathi section of the Mutiny) toy with Hindu nationalism. However, this neo-Maratha Empire would only encompass Madhya Pradesh and part of Uttar Pradesh (an odd place for a Maratha state, but that's where the Indian Mutiny was clustered), so it would hardly be a pan-India state.
 
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You definitely need a pre-1900 POD for this. Since the time of Ram Mohan Roy, Indian nationalism was vehemently secular and hotly opposed to Hinduism in government. Even Tilak worked with the Theosophist Annie Besant despite being a firm believer in “Hindu rights” including child marriage (using arguments that sound a lot like Christian fundamentalists’ support of homophobic bakers), and supported placing the Islamic crescent on some sort of Indian flag in addition to Hindu symbols. BTW, it's ASB for Tilak to lead the Indian nationalist movement because he believed that Marathas should be demoted to Shudra status, and Marathas were some of the most important supporters of Indian nationalism. The fact that Hindu nationalists believed that Marathas should be demoted alone discredited Hindu nationalism for decades. Hindu nationalism IOTL only got over that by viewing caste with disdain, to the extent that the current BJP President of India is a Dalit. I think it's very difficult to get Hindu nationalism to get over the caste issue.

All I can really think of is a successful Indian Mutiny, resulting in an independent neo-Maratha Empire led by Nana Sahib with the Rani of Jhansi as his deputy of sorts. I can easily see this state, led by Brahmins (despite its name, Brahmins rather than Marathas led the Maratha Empire as well as the Marathi section of the Mutiny) toy with Hindu nationalism. However, this neo-Maratha Empire would only encompass Madhya Pradesh and part of Uttar Pradesh (an odd place for a Maratha state, but that's where the Indian Mutiny was clustered), so it would hardly be a pan-India state.
A successful Indian Mutiny under Hindu Nationalists was an impossible proposal for two reasons. The Mutiny was a joint effort of Hindus and Muslims. The mutiny leaders had held up the Mughal Emperor Bahadur Shah II as their mascot though he had no control over them. The Hindu portion of leaders like Nana Saheb or the Rani of Jhansi would not have approved any return of a Mughal Empire. The Mutiny was secular out of necessity and the only common thread was the enmity towards the British Raj. The second reason was the fact that the Hindu Nationalism had not appeared as a strong force at that time. Though Maratha king Shivaji and the Maratha Empire gave inspiration to the later Hindu Nationalists, the Maratha fighters like Nana Saheb, Tantia Tope or Rani Lakshmi Bai did not have an idea of Hindu Nationalism.
 
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A successful Indian Mutiny under Hindu Nationalists was an impossible proposal for two reasons. The Mutiny was a joint effort of Hindus and Muslims. The mutiny leaders had held up the Mughal Emperor Bahadur Shah II as their mascot though he had no control over them. The Hindu portion of leaders like Nana Saheb or the Rani of Jhansi would not have approved any return of a Mughal Empire. The Mutiny was secular out of necessity and the only common thread was the enmity towards the British Raj. The second reason was the fact that the Hindu Nationalism had not appeared as a strong force at that time. Though Maratha king Shivaji and the Maratha Empire gave inspiration to the later Hindu Nationalists, the Maratha fighters like Nana Saheb, Tantia Tope or Rani Lakshmi Bai did not have an idea of Hindu Nationalism.

Perhaps a split during the Mutiny between Hindu and Muslim mutineers, although all that will result in is a faster crushing of the uprising by the British as they play the divided mutineers off against each other.
 
A successful Indian Mutiny under Hindu Nationalists was an impossible proposal for two reasons. The Mutiny was a joint effort of Hindus and Muslims. The mutiny leaders had held up the Mughal Emperor Bahadur Shah II as their mascot though he had no control over them. The Hindu portion of leaders like Nana Saheb or the Rani of Jhansi would not have approved any return of a Mughal Empire.

The Madhya Pradesh section was an entirely separate section of the Mutiny. It was, for clear and obvious reasons, a Hindu-dominated revolt. And it wouldn’t have ever returned to the Mughal fold and would have instead formed a separate Maratha state flying the saffron banner. I also don’t think that the Mughals would even try to occupy the Marathas because they have no reason to care about forested regions like Madhya Pradesh.

The second reason was the fact that the Hindu Nationalism had not appeared as a strong force at that time.

Of course. It needs to emerge independently from the neo-Maratha Empire. In an era where the Maratha Empire has been restored, I do think that the impact this has on any would-be Hindu nationalists is obvious. I think it’s inevitable that the Maratha Empire becomes a Hindu nationalist symbol since it was the last massive Hindu empire. Also, Hinduism would be the one thing united this neo-Maratha Empire together. In such an atmosphere, a form of religion-based nationalism is inevitable. And such an ideology would grow beyond its borders.

In contrast, by 1947, Hindu nationalism was far from a mature ideology, and Gandhi’s assassination by a Hindu nationalist led to it becoming deeply unpopular. It only emerged as a viable ideology after the Emergency, when it was the main organization protesting Indira Gandhi’s acts.
 
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Perhaps a split during the Mutiny between Hindu and Muslim mutineers, although all that will result in is a faster crushing of the uprising by the British as they play the divided mutineers off against each other.

There was a split during the Mutiny between pro-Maratha rebels and pro-Mughal rebels, though they didn't fight one another likely because the Maratha rebels only really claimed forested territory in Bundelkhand and wider Madhya Pradesh. Such a "Maratha" state could very easily create a form of Hindu nationalism which, unlike OTL's, would be inclusive of Maratha people and then export this ideology to India. Assuming Britain reconquers the Maratha Empire down the line, this Hindu nationalism could easily be exported across British Empire, becoming a mature ideology by the time Indian nationalism becomes a big thing.

This challenge is almost impossible because Hindu nationalists wanted to demote Marathas to Shudra status, but such a POD would avoid that whole business because Marathas would be the ones spearheading Hindu nationalism in the first place.

There's also the issue that Zoroastrians were leaders of the Indian nationalist movement, but the solution to that is to make Hindu nationalism a "culturally Hindu" movement.
 
If the Hindu nationalists kept the caste system and caste discrimination could other religions like Christianity or Buddhism spread to the majority of people in lower castes, and how would the government react?
 
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