WI Herzl gets a charter from the Ottomans?

Let's say that a different ruler, who was more liberal and multicultural and less tyrannical and Islamist was Sultan of the OE during the late 1800's/early 1900's, and was willing to allow Jews to settle in Palestine as Herzl wanted, and in return they recieve Jewish monetary and political aid, as well as a stronger border with the British in Egypt and a more efficient rule in Palestine.

Now, can it actually happen? IIRC, only Palestinian Arabs resisted early Zionism, whereas most other Arabs were actually in good terms with the Zionists (Faisel-Waizman treaty, for example). Would that change now that the Zionists and the Ottomans are working together? How many Jews would immigrate to Palestine if they are legally allowed and even encouraged to do so?
 
I'm not sure you could get an Ottoman Sultan even more 'liberal and multicultural' than Abdülmecid I, Abdülaziz, Murad V, or etc. The Ottoman's empire certainly had its fair share of problems, especially in regards to reformation and modernization, but the Sultans definitely weren't the ones holding such movements back, and changing one Sultan for another isn't going to change the resistance encountered to such reformist movements by the imperial bureaucracy and military.
 
Last edited:
The times we're talking about is the reign of Abdul Hamid II, who was quite the reactionary. I believe he was even called "the Red Sultan" in the West for his tyranny, and he was the one to refuse Herzl's proposal for Jewish settlement in Palestine.
 
You opened with hypothesizing a more 'liberal' ruler than Abdul Hamid II, but he himself was put in place by reactionary elements within the empire to stop Murad V's efforts at reform. I'm not sure you could get a liberal ruler in the Sublime Porte. The best bet might be the Turks winning the 1877–1878 war against Russia, and have the constitution of 1876 never suspended, or at least reinstated much sooner.
 
The Young Ottomans faced much opposition, but were also quite popular. Remember that Abdul Hamid II was deposed by the successors of the Young Ottomans (the Young Turks), and IIRC faced several assassination attempts.
 
I think you would have to go back somewhat farther than the late 19th century to have a chance for the Ottoman Sultan to grant the Zionists a charter for settlement. i think your best option is to have a PoD which either makes the Tanzimat (Ottoman modernization movement, look it up) more successful or drastically less successful than OTL. In the case of a more successful Tanzimat, a more stable and prosperous Ottoman Empire, with the tolerant and liberal Young Ottomans in charge, would definitely consider granting settlement rights and cultural autonomy to Jewish settlers in Palestine. Bringing lots of new citizens, many of whom would be industrious workers, and who would be entirely dependent on the Ottomans for protection and legitimacy.

The other alternative is a Tanzimat that fails even more so than OTL, and leads to an effective disintegration of the Ottoman Empire. In that situation, the British might, if they have a Judaeophile PM and want effective control over Palestine, might pressure the Ottoman Sultan to grant the Jews a charter to settle in Palestine, under the protection of the British, in exchange for some debt relief.
 

Deleted member 9338

Changes in The Geat War

If this does occur, will it change The Great War in the Middle East. Would there be a Jewish Brigade taking part in the assault on Suez in 1914. Would the greater Jewish community in the United States work to keeping the US out the the war?
 
If this does occur, will it change The Great War in the Middle East. Would there be a Jewish Brigade taking part in the assault on Suez in 1914. Would the greater Jewish community in the United States work to keeping the US out the the war?

This is assuming the Great War in its current form hasn't been totally butterflied away, which is highly probable. An Ottoman Empire whose strength during the latter half of the 19th century is very different from OTL is going to affect events in Europe dramatically.

As for the American Jewish community trying to keep the USA out of the war? Unlikely. Jews at the time were not a very widely loved immigrant group, and besides a few (likely Socialist) agitators, will likely stay out of the whole ting, for fear of being accused of being "un-American".
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Let's say that a different ruler, who was more liberal and multicultural and less tyrannical and Islamist
This word does not mean what you seem to think it means.

a more efficient rule in Palestine.
How is pissing off the locals by allowing and favoring European colonization going to make ruling Palestine "more efficient" :confused:
 
How is pissing off the locals by allowing and favoring European colonization going to make ruling Palestine "more efficient" :confused:

Well as I have said before having a very loyal base of supporters in most regions was part of the Ottoman effort to break the backs of nationalist movements.
 

Wolfpaw

Banned
Well as I have said before having a very loyal base of supporters in most regions was part of the Ottoman effort to break the backs of nationalist movements.
The locals tended to be loyal to the Ottomans, and nationalist movements (apart from Armenia) were pretty negligible until the Brits showed up with guns, cash, and some opportunistic clans from the bowels of Arabia.

And this is just going to make the Sultan look bad; he is favoring European dhimmis at the direct expense of his Muslim subjects. If anything, this is going to increase anti-Ottoman sentiment in Syria, the most "nationalist" of the Arab regions.
 
Top