WI | Hephaestion Survives

Lets say Hephaestion survives, and Alexander dies in the same way as OTL. Would he take the role of Perdicass, as a regent for the unborn Alexander? Or will he end up like the other diadochi, gaining a kingdom in the mess of what is left of the empire? Thoughts?
 

Skallagrim

Banned
First off, do keep in mind that Alexander's OTL death spiral was largely caused by Hephaistion's untimely death. Alexander went more or less mad with grief, and even after he recovered his senses, he proceeded to self-destruct in a spectacular fashion. Without Hephaistion's death, it's likely that his death is postponed at least a bit. Of course, for the sake of argument we can just assume he randomly falls ill at around the same time he died in OTL, with fatal results.

Hephaistion would be the obvious choice to be regent in such a scenario. If he's alive when Alexander dies, there can be little doubt (actually, I'd say: no doubt at all) that Alexander would name him as regent. Assuming that, as in OTL, Alexander is capable of speaking on his death-bed. There would be no vague mumbling that could be interpreted as either "to Krateiros" or "to the strongest" (kratistos). It would just be "the regency goes to Hephaistion". Alexander would never in a million years consider anyone else for that position as long as "the other half of his soul" is alive to take the role. Add to that the fact that Hephaistion is married to an Akhaimenid princess, too, and his claim gets even stronger. At the same time, his utter loyalty to Alexander will ensure that he'll never try to take the throne for himself. Hephaistion's support for Alexander's pro-Persian policies of cultural fusion will ensure that any support of Persia as a power block will be thrown behind him, and not Seleukos. Knowing this, Seleukos is in fact likely to support Hephaistion. Perdikkas, too, would likely back Hephaistion. (Perdikkas wasn't out for power, at least not initially: when the troops offered him the crown - persumably with Alexander's son as his heir - he refused and went with regency instead.)

There would no doubt be opponents to a Hephaistion regency, but he'd be in a stronger position than Perdikkas ever was. I imagine parts of the empire would break off. Egypt, Greece, Macedon itself, even... and Chandragupta would probably grab some bits up in the east, as in OTL. Hephaistion would end up in charge of a more powerful version of the Seleukid Empire, which would actually cover pretty much the whole of the old Akhaimenid Empire.

(Needless to say, sudden deaths can change the whole course of history. What I have outlined here merely paints the most likely outcome barring unforeseen twists.)
 
First off, do keep in mind that Alexander's OTL death spiral was largely caused by Hephaistion's untimely death. Alexander went more or less mad with grief, and even after he recovered his senses, he proceeded to self-destruct in a spectacular fashion. Without Hephaistion's death, it's likely that his death is postponed at least a bit. Of course, for the sake of argument we can just assume he randomly falls ill at around the same time he died in OTL, with fatal results.

Hephaistion would be the obvious choice to be regent in such a scenario. If he's alive when Alexander dies, there can be little doubt (actually, I'd say: no doubt at all) that Alexander would name him as regent. Assuming that, as in OTL, Alexander is capable of speaking on his death-bed. There would be no vague mumbling that could be interpreted as either "to Krateiros" or "to the strongest" (kratistos). It would just be "the regency goes to Hephaistion". Alexander would never in a million years consider anyone else for that position as long as "the other half of his soul" is alive to take the role. Add to that the fact that Hephaistion is married to an Akhaimenid princess, too, and his claim gets even stronger. At the same time, his utter loyalty to Alexander will ensure that he'll never try to take the throne for himself. Hephaistion's support for Alexander's pro-Persian policies of cultural fusion will ensure that any support of Persia as a power block will be thrown behind him, and not Seleukos. Knowing this, Seleukos is in fact likely to support Hephaistion. Perdikkas, too, would likely back Hephaistion. (Perdikkas wasn't out for power, at least not initially: when the troops offered him the crown - persumably with Alexander's son as his heir - he refused and went with regency instead.)

There would no doubt be opponents to a Hephaistion regency, but he'd be in a stronger position than Perdikkas ever was. I imagine parts of the empire would break off. Egypt, Greece, Macedon itself, even... and Chandragupta would probably grab some bits up in the east, as in OTL. Hephaistion would end up in charge of a more powerful version of the Seleukid Empire, which would actually cover pretty much the whole of the old Akhaimenid Empire.

(Needless to say, sudden deaths can change the whole course of history. What I have outlined here merely paints the most likely outcome barring unforeseen twists.)

I like your thoughts. Though I do disagree with Macedon breaking off. After all, Hephaestion could essentially take Macedon away from Antipater and grant it to someone else, like Arrhidaeus.
 
Lets say Hephaestion survives, and Alexander dies in the same way as OTL. Would he take the role of Perdicass, as a regent for the unborn Alexander? Or will he end up like the other diadochi, gaining a kingdom in the mess of what is left of the empire? Thoughts?
First with Hephaistion alive is unlikely who Alexander will die as OTL but if Alexander still die early is really unlikely who his heir will be his son by Roxane considering who likely Stateira was killed (on order by Roxane) because she also was pregnant but less advanced than Roxane. Hepahistion is married to Stateira's younger sister so Alexander's eventual successor will be either Stateira's son or son-in-law (in the second case Macedonia and Greece will likely go to Arrhidaeus and Eurydike or Kleopatra and her second husband (one of Alexander's generals or Antipater's son) or to Kleopatra's children but the last option is really unlikely) or to Hepaistion and Drypteis's children. Hepahistion will be able to keep intact the Persian's power structure and will not have all the troubles who Perdicca had because he will be easily accepted as regent by everyone.
If Alexander's only child will be as OTL the son of Roxane he will be required to marry as soon as possible a greek/persian or persian girl of high rank most likely a daughter of Hephaistion himself or Krateros (who was married to Darius's niece).
With only Alexander's death (but without the OTL murder of Stateira and Drypteis) maybe Queen Mother Sisygambis will not kill herself after hearing of her adoptive's son death and in that case in the short time she had toi live (she was rather old) she will Hepahistion's biggest support in estabilishing his regency
 
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Would Hephastion even carry out demobilizing the army and partitioning the empire? Or with a broader base of support and a lot more Argeads to take care of would he be tempted to go DIRECT RULE FROM BABYLON?

The entire Diadochi period changes with an alternate partition.
 
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I believe the diadochi's will still arise, but for wanting to get rid of the Persian influence. It's no secret that there was growing discontent among the Macedonians for Alexander adopting Persian customs and trying to integrate them into his army, the final straw would be Alexander legitimizing his first child is with Stateira II as heir over Roxana.

Though if it his empire holds together, I think it would make allies out of Rome and Carthage in an alternate Punic war
 
I think, going on the premise that Alex still dies on schedule (@Skallagrim or others can correct me, but wasn't his health pretty much shot even WITHOUT his Hephaestion inspired downward spiral), Hephaestion's regent for a child/unborn heir.

HOWEVER, Heph's gonna have to deal with problems right in front of him pretty soon. Namely the abovementioned growing discontent in the army about the king becoming too Persian/Oriental. I'm not saying the army's gonna stage a coup or something like that, but the grumblers are gonna be a problem. Particularly if they're higher ranked/important enough to lead others astray.

@Velasco started a pretty good TL on the premise called "two chiliarchs are not enough" or something, where Heph survives. Although ancient history isn't my specialty I thought it was reasonable enough to have legs.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
First of all: this thread is from a while back. I have no idea what the necro limit is, but keep in mind that this thread might get closed. That said... it's not like adding a comment to an already re-started thread will do any additional damage, so here goes:

I think, going on the premise that Alex still dies on schedule (@Skallagrim or others can correct me, but wasn't his health pretty much shot even WITHOUT his Hephaestion inspired downward spiral), Hephaestion's regent for a child/unborn heir.

HOWEVER, Heph's gonna have to deal with problems right in front of him pretty soon. Namely the abovementioned growing discontent in the army about the king becoming too Persian/Oriental. I'm not saying the army's gonna stage a coup or something like that, but the grumblers are gonna be a problem. Particularly if they're higher ranked/important enough to lead others astray.

You are quite right that Alexander already had health issues (a serious injury from an arrow), a dangerous lifestyle, and a tendency towards binge drinking. On the other hand: Alexander really started self-destructing after Hephaistion died. All his bad tendencies escalated. So my view would be that saving hephaistion removes the OTL cause of Alexander's death, but in no way means the odds are good of him living much longer. His arrow-wound actually prevented him from fighting in the front lines (as had been his habit), but given his life-style, he'd still run constant risk and would most probably die on campains within a few years.

Anyway, to change as little as possible in the "Hephaistion lives"-scenario, just have Alexander organise a feast (as he often did) around the time of his OTL death. He gets stupendously drunk (as he often did) and becomes argumentative (as he often did). He gets in a fight with one of his companions... who, in the heat of the moment, kills him. For absolute maximum efficiency, have it be Kassandros (who hated Alexander and would be a thorn in any regent's side). The two men start fighting, they both have knives in their hands before anyone can intervene (since all are drunk), they thrown themselves at each other, and when one comes up... it's Kassandros. Alexander is on the floor, a dagger in his chest, mortally injured. Hephaistion at once kills Kassandros where he stands. Alexander dies later that night, but not before naming Hephaistion as regent in the presence of all the other companions, so that it cannot be challenged by any of them.

Again, keep in mind that the more anti-Persian officers have already been sent back to Macedon to retire at this point. Hephaistion's Empire is going to be rather Persian, but the companians will not mind that so very much if their existing positions and privileges are maintained. So again: at worst, Macedon might attempt to separate itself from the larger Empire as much as possible.
 
I like the getting rid of Kassandros idea. However, I'm wondering if KILLING your commander in chief might be a bridge too far (even if you are drunk) - plenty of soldiers have probably fantasized about it (both before and since), but lets not wave away that Kassandros (even drunk) is going to be VERY very aware of the consequences of said action. He's not likely to be viewed as a hero for doing it (even the officers who were ANTI-Alexander's Persian ideas won't necessarily come out and congratulate him), Heĺl, he might even beat Hephaestion to the punch and kill himself out of "guilt"/"shame" - no idea if this was a Greek thing, but it seems sorta poetic.

What actually killed Hephaestion OTL? Can't we simply set a butterfly that the CoD finishes Alex instead?
 

Skallagrim

Banned
I like the getting rid of Kassandros idea. However, I'm wondering if KILLING your commander in chief might be a bridge too far (even if you are drunk) - plenty of soldiers have probably fantasized about it (both before and since), but lets not wave away that Kassandros (even drunk) is going to be VERY very aware of the consequences of said action. He's not likely to be viewed as a hero for doing it (even the officers who were ANTI-Alexander's Persian ideas won't necessarily come out and congratulate him), Heĺl, he might even beat Hephaestion to the punch and kill himself out of "guilt"/"shame" - no idea if this was a Greek thing, but it seems sorta poetic.

What actually killed Hephaestion OTL? Can't we simply set a butterfly that the CoD finishes Alex instead?

Keep in mind that there is "normal person drunk", "black-out drunk", and then way beyond that you get "Ancient Macedonian aristocracy drunk". Alexander himself outright murdered one of his officers (Kleitos) when said officer was drunkenly shit-talking him. They were both completely beyond any semblance of reason, and Alexander just bashed the guy to death. He sure felt bad about it afterwards, but in the moment, reason just didn't enter into it. The other Macedonian aristocrats were no better. These are no Athenians drinking watered-down wine and purging (purposely throwing up) periodically to get out most of the 'poison' before continuing. These people went at it hard. Unwatered wine, from sunset to sunrise, at which time everyone was totally blacked out.

I think Kassandros killing Alexander in a drunken rage is quite possible. Especially seeing as they detested each other, and Alexander had humiliated Kassandros. The story there was: Kassandros throught the Persian habit of prostrating themselves before the king was ludicrous (as many Macedonians felt). when an old man came before Alexander and did it, with great difficulty because he was so old, Kassandros laughed. Alexander was furious, strode over, threw Kassandros on the ground and bashed his face into the stone floor repeatedly (possibly maiming him for life). It is said that even years after Alexander's death, Kassandros couldn't stand to even be near a statue of him. (And Kassandros is indeed the one who in OTL killed the last of Alexander's direct relatives.)

Of course, you can indeed just have Alexander simply die instead of Hephaistion. The POD is totally random: Hephaistion ate a chicken and swallowed a bone splinter. It punctured his intestine, which became infected, and he died from it. Could've happened to anyone. And yes, could've happened to Alexander, too.prostrating
 
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