WI: Hephaestion Outlives Alexander?

I was able to find some preliminary discussion about this in some old threads, but most the members who discussed seem to have been banned. So, for the other philhellenes... what does this change? Will there still be a fight over the regency? Will Roxana or Stateira make it through? Or is Hephaestion as greedy as all the others and does he deliberately fumble the ball to allow for his own children by his own wife Drypetis to inherit the empire?
 
I was able to find some preliminary discussion about this in some old threads, but most the members who discussed seem to have been banned. So, for the other philhellenes... what does this change? Will there still be a fight over the regency? Will Roxana or Stateira make it through? Or is Hephaestion as greedy as all the others and does he deliberately fumble the ball to allow for his own children by his own wife Drypetis to inherit the empire?

I think Hephaestion would be far more loyal to Alex than many others. But perhaps only to a point - for instance, if Alex leaves no heirs or daughters by Roxana/Stateira its one thing, Hephaestion might push for Alex's bastard son, Herakles (I think) to inherit and only if that fails take to plan B. Hephaestion might have a claim to the Persian half (and the conquests) through Drypteis, but Olympia might move against him in Macedon proper in favour of Alexander IV or some other Argead prince.

I think it was @Velasco that had a TL on Alex and hephaestion living longer.
 
I think Hephaestion would be far more loyal to Alex than many others. But perhaps only to a point - for instance, if Alex leaves no heirs or daughters by Roxana/Stateira its one thing, Hephaestion might push for Alex's bastard son, Herakles (I think) to inherit and only if that fails take to plan B. Hephaestion might have a claim to the Persian half (and the conquests) through Drypteis, but Olympia might move against him in Macedon proper in favour of Alexander IV or some other Argead prince.

I think it was @Velasco that had a TL on Alex and hephaestion living longer.


Didn't Roxana give birth to a son? Is that not the Alexander IV to which you are referring? Cuz I imagine that Olympias' and Hephaestion's interests would be intertwined in defending Alexander IV as the rightful heir of the empire. In this situation, I honestly see the succession going much more smoothly, with perhaps Craterus and others attempting to break Macedonia from the empire for fear of mixing Macedonians/Greeks with Persians. I imagine a serious wrench would be thrown into the whole thing if a pregnant Stateira (does anyone have any idea how this name was pronounced in Persian, by the way) gave birth to a son. In this situation, I think that Hephaestion would support Stateira's son as the heir to the throne, as Stateira was his sister-in-law, and arranging the marriage of such a child to any daughters he might have by Drypetis would not only secure his regency and continued influence on such a child as king, but also his and Alexander's progeny as ruling the empire. But if Stateira gives birth to a daughter, it's easy peasy lemon squeazy... or at least, comparatively speaking. Marry Stateira's daughter to Hephaestion's son, and marry Hephaestion's daughter Alexander/Roxana's son. Perhaps a division of power, a la the Parthians would develop, with Hephaestion's dynasty ruling east of the Zagros as subordinates to Alexander's, who would rule the west.
 
Didn't Roxana give birth to a son? Is that not the Alexander IV to which you are referring? Cuz I imagine that Olympias' and Hephaestion's interests would be intertwined in defending Alexander IV as the rightful heir of the empire. In this situation, I honestly see the succession going much more smoothly, with perhaps Craterus and others attempting to break Macedonia from the empire for fear of mixing Macedonians/Greeks with Persians. I imagine a serious wrench would be thrown into the whole thing if a pregnant Stateira (does anyone have any idea how this name was pronounced in Persian, by the way) gave birth to a son. In this situation, I think that Hephaestion would support Stateira's son as the heir to the throne, as Stateira was his sister-in-law, and arranging the marriage of such a child to any daughters he might have by Drypetis would not only secure his regency and continued influence on such a child as king, but also his and Alexander's progeny as ruling the empire. But if Stateira gives birth to a daughter, it's easy peasy lemon squeazy... or at least, comparatively speaking. Marry Stateira's daughter to Hephaestion's son, and marry Hephaestion's daughter Alexander/Roxana's son. Perhaps a division of power, a la the Parthians would develop, with Hephaestion's dynasty ruling east of the Zagros as subordinates to Alexander's, who would rule the west.

The Alexander IV to whom I'm referring is indeed Alex the Great's son, however I also meant (since I'm not sure how far you wanted your POD to be) whatever Argead prince Olympia can scrounge up (Alex had a retarded half-brother and a nephew I think) if Alex IV dies young as OTL, or perhaps knowig that she's sister to the woman married to the man who'll rule/be regent, Statira acts first and does to Roxanne what was done to her OTL
 
The Alexander IV to whom I'm referring is indeed Alex the Great's son, however I also meant (since I'm not sure how far you wanted your POD to be) whatever Argead prince Olympia can scrounge up (Alex had a retarded half-brother and a nephew I think) if Alex IV dies young as OTL, or perhaps knowig that she's sister to the woman married to the man who'll rule/be regent, Statira acts first and does to Roxanne what was done to her OTL


Right. I was thinking that Hephaestion doesn't contract typhoid fever, and Alexander dies on queue. We might go with the congenital scoliotic syndrome hypothesis here. In this case, I don't think there is any reason for Olympias and Hephaestion to part ways, and so I doubt she would throw herself behind Arrhidaeus ITTL while Hephaestion is regent and Alexander has living children. I see the primary fight being between the older officers, who were against Alexander's policy of mixing Greek and Persian (Antipater, Craterus, Cassander, Antigonus) and the younger officers who are more in favor (Hephaestion, Seleucus, Ptolemy, Peucestas). The older, "pro-Macedonian" faction as it were, would be the ones digging up other Argeads to rule the empire, while the "pro-integration" faction would support Alexander IV, the legitimate son of Alexander III and his Asian wife. Arranging the marriage of Drypetis' daughter to Alexander IV while they are children would cement his legitimacy in Persia as well, as the children of this marriage would be both Macedonian and Persian, and Argead and Achaemenid. The lives of these children are likely to be characterized by an intense rivalry between Olympias and Sisygambis in their personal lives, with both grandmothers competing for their love and subsequently political influence.
 

Skallagrim

Banned
There was a thread about this idea two months ago, where wrote as follows:

First off, do keep in mind that Alexander's OTL death spiral was largely caused by Hephaistion's untimely death. Alexander went more or less mad with grief, and even after he recovered his senses, he proceeded to self-destruct in a spectacular fashion. Without Hephaistion's death, it's likely that his death is postponed at least a bit. Of course, for the sake of argument we can just assume he randomly falls ill at around the same time he died in OTL, with fatal results.

Hephaistion would be the obvious choice to be regent in such a scenario. If he's alive when Alexander dies, there can be little doubt (actually, I'd say: no doubt at all) that Alexander would name him as regent. Assuming that, as in OTL, Alexander is capable of speaking on his death-bed. There would be no vague mumbling that could be interpreted as either "to Krateiros" or "to the strongest" (kratistos). It would just be "the regency goes to Hephaistion". Alexander would never in a million years consider anyone else for that position as long as "the other half of his soul" is alive to take the role. Add to that the fact that Hephaistion is married to an Akhaimenid princess, too, and his claim gets even stronger. At the same time, his utter loyalty to Alexander will ensure that he'll never try to take the throne for himself. Hephaistion's support for Alexander's pro-Persian policies of cultural fusion will ensure that any support of Persia as a power block will be thrown behind him, and not Seleukos. Knowing this, Seleukos is in fact likely to support Hephaistion. Perdikkas, too, would likely back Hephaistion. (Perdikkas wasn't out for power, at least not initially: when the troops offered him the crown - persumably with Alexander's son as his heir - he refused and went with regency instead.)

There would no doubt be opponents to a Hephaistion regency, but he'd be in a stronger position than Perdikkas ever was. I imagine parts of the empire would break off. Egypt, Greece, Macedon itself, even... and Chandragupta would probably grab some bits up in the east, as in OTL. Hephaistion would end up in charge of a more powerful version of the Seleukid Empire, which would actually cover pretty much the whole of the old Akhaimenid Empire.

(Needless to say, sudden deaths can change the whole course of history. What I have outlined here merely paints the most likely outcome barring unforeseen twists.)

I stand by that assessment. Do note that @Alexander Helios pointed out that I may have been wrong about my suggestion that Mecadon itself (under Krateiros) might split off, since Hephaistion-as-regent could just appoint someone else as governor of Macedon. Personally, I'm pretty sure that Krateiros, having the most anti-Persian veterans of the whole atrmy with him at the time, could still just make a break for it, possibly offering the Greek city-states independence in return for their co-operation. Still, a lot depeds on how Hephaistion plays it, and how willing Krateiros is to gamble big.

Anyway, bottom line: Hephaistion surviving means he gets to be regent over a Persia-centred Empire.
 
There was a thread about this idea two months ago, where wrote as follows:



I stand by that assessment. Do note that @Alexander Helios pointed out that I may have been wrong about my suggestion that Mecadon itself (under Krateiros) might split off, since Hephaistion-as-regent could just appoint someone else as governor of Macedon. Personally, I'm pretty sure that Krateiros, having the most anti-Persian veterans of the whole atrmy with him at the time, could still just make a break for it, possibly offering the Greek city-states independence in return for their co-operation. Still, a lot depeds on how Hephaistion plays it, and how willing Krateiros is to gamble big.

Anyway, bottom line: Hephaistion surviving means he gets to be regent over a Persia-centred Empire.


I saw that post, but I am not sure if Hephaestion's death was responsible or if something else was at play. The matter seems to be very garbled, with a number of plausible hypotheses to explain it. Do you think Antipater would come to Babylon, though? I'm pretty sure Hephaestion would continue Alexander's orders, but I'm not sure Antipater would obey Hephaestion. So, the break from the empire might be a coordinated effort on the part of Antipater, Cassander, and Craterus to put Arrhidaeus on the throne, perhaps marrying him to his daughter Eurydice.
 
It really all boils down to whether the others would accept one person to rule in Alexanders stead. None of them proved capable of accepting anyone else, and I don't see it being any different here.
 
It really all boils down to whether the others would accept one person to rule in Alexanders stead. None of them proved capable of accepting anyone else, and I don't see it being any different here.

It IS slightly different, although probably not by much: any of their colleagues so promoted they'd take issue with (for instance Ptolemy vs. Seleukos vs. Cassander). Hephaestion is sort of above that hurly burly, he's Alex's best mate, probably lover and brother-in-law (oh and he's got a blood tie to the last Achaeminid emperor and the new king - which none of them do (yet)). Sure, they could take issue with it, but are you gonna risk rebelling against a guy who has the generals who AREN'T rebelling against him to put you down?

Hephaestion's the option that would divide them the least IMO. I don't say he could prevent ALL of them from rebelling and actually figuring out HOW to rule this empire's probably gonna be a nightmare, but I'd say he's got a better shot (less jealousy from the ranks since they'd be aware of his close bond to Alex so they'd see him as a logical choice) than most of them to walk off with all the marbles
 
It IS slightly different, although probably not by much: any of their colleagues so promoted they'd take issue with (for instance Ptolemy vs. Seleukos vs. Cassander). Hephaestion is sort of above that hurly burly, he's Alex's best mate, probably lover and brother-in-law (oh and he's got a blood tie to the last Achaeminid emperor and the new king - which none of them do (yet)). Sure, they could take issue with it, but are you gonna risk rebelling against a guy who has the generals who AREN'T rebelling against him to put you down?

Hephaestion's the option that would divide them the least IMO. I don't say he could prevent ALL of them from rebelling and actually figuring out HOW to rule this empire's probably gonna be a nightmare, but I'd say he's got a better shot (less jealousy from the ranks since they'd be aware of his close bond to Alex so they'd see him as a logical choice) than most of them to walk off with all the marbles

He may well be above it all, it's the others I don't trust. During the life of Alexander. no one individual really rose to be viewed as a natural successor.
 
He may well be above it all, it's the others I don't trust. During the life of Alexander. no one individual really rose to be viewed as a natural successor.

I don't think Hephaestion's stupid enough to have gone through life NOT noticing who can be trusted and who not. He'd probably realize that (some of) the generals are gonna fight like rats in a sack once his boyfriend is dead. He might let them duke it out, weaken one another before he steps in and takes control, see who's loyal to Alex and who's in it for the money/power. Or they might murder him before Alex's body's cold, I could see him dealing with a similar question from them as Moses from the Hebrew slave in Exodus 2:14: "who appointed you as judge and leader over us". Even if Alex leaves a will or tells them Hephaestion's to be regent before he dies. A dead king's word has no power, as the saying goes.
 
Yep, Alex's ring didn't do Perdiccas any good.

II thought Perdiccas was doing reasonably well until he came a cropper in Egypt. If Hephaestion leaves Ptolemy alone and concentrates on securing Macedon and Asia Minor as well as Persia, he might well have held things together until Alexander IV was old enough to be taken seriously.
 
II thought Perdiccas was doing reasonably well until he came a cropper in Egypt. If Hephaestion leaves Ptolemy alone and concentrates on securing Macedon and Asia Minor as well as Persia, he might well have held things together until Alexander IV was old enough to be taken seriously.


You are assuming that the Partition of Babylon goes the same, which I think is somewhat of a hefty assumption to make, given that Perdiccas was in a very different position IOTL in terms of his relationship to Alexander. As has already been discussed, Hephaestion was the unquestionably closest confidant of Alexander AND his brother-in-law. If Stateira were to give birth to a son, that would make him uncle to the heir as well. So, I think Hephaestion has the authority to divide the empire up a little differently, and so Ptolemy might not even be in Egypt, and he likewise might not be part of an anti-Hephaestion coup. If I were to imagine a party that would be going against Hephaestion, it would probably be Antipater/Polyperchon/Craterus, possibly backing Eurydice (Alexander's niece by his half-sister Cynane) and Arrhidaeus against a half-Oriental heir (say, Eurydice mothers a child by Arrhidaeus). All of these men were thoroughly against Alexander's policy of cultural integration, and an heir by Arrhidaeus and Eurydice would be European, not Asian, and if such an heir didn't share his father's disabilities, he would be the perfect candidate to rule over a Macedonian Empire... to them at least. That is of course assuming that Eurydice would bypass Hephaestion's authority, as she and her mother did IOTL to Perdiccas, to propose marriage to Arrhidaeus, and it also supposes that Arrhidaeus is even elected to co-rule the kingdom as he did alongside Alexander... both of which I see no reason why they wouldn't.
 
Well with Hephaestion's survival we would surely have a more stable interregnum after Alexander's death (but I still think who without the death of his best friend Alexander will live some more years, enough for putting in place a proper succession) fror two reasons:
Hephaestion will be accepted by everyone as regent (he is well know as Alexander best friend and second in command and he is the other son in law of Darius) and Perdiccas and Roxane will not have the power to try anything against Stateira and Drypetis.
The ring of Alexander OTL was likely destined to the absent Craterus, who Alex had married to Darius' niece and sent back in Macedonia with part of the army for replacing Antipater as regent there (both things who said who Alexander trusted and valued him a lot) and the generals decided to use the similitude between his name and the greek word for strongest for excluding him so Perdikkas was unable to use the ring against his fellow conspirators...
Stateira at the time of Alexander's death was likely pregnant, and is unlikely who she was not Alexander's Queen so her son would have been the clear heir to the throne and a daughter a very strong candidate as heiress of everything but Greece and Macedonia specially if married to a son of Hephaistion or Krateros (so another descendant of the Persian Queen Mother Sisygambis). Roxane's son, if he is born and had no half-brother, for keeping the throne will absolutely need to marry a daughter of either Stateira or Drypetis for consolidating his claim because Arrhidaeus in Macedonia, a son-in-law of Stateira and a son or son-in-law of Drypetis will have all easily an higher claim on either Macedonia or the rest of the Empire than him...
I think who Hephaistion, being secure on his position as regent in Asia, maybe decide to ally himself with Cynane and Eurydice and so give permission to the wedding between Philip and Eurydice, putting them as regents (or co-regents) only in Macedonia and Greece for securing that lands and the favour of the army and cavalry.
 
Well with Hephaestion's survival we would surely have a more stable interregnum after Alexander's death (but I still think who without the death of his best friend Alexander will live some more years, enough for putting in place a proper succession) fror two reasons:
Hephaestion will be accepted by everyone as regent (he is well know as Alexander best friend and second in command and he is the other son in law of Darius) and Perdiccas and Roxane will not have the power to try anything against Stateira and Drypetis.
The ring of Alexander OTL was likely destined to the absent Craterus, who Alex had married to Darius' niece and sent back in Macedonia with part of the army for replacing Antipater as regent there (both things who said who Alexander trusted and valued him a lot) and the generals decided to use the similitude between his name and the greek word for strongest for excluding him so Perdikkas was unable to use the ring against his fellow conspirators...
Stateira at the time of Alexander's death was likely pregnant, and is unlikely who she was not Alexander's Queen so her son would have been the clear heir to the throne and a daughter a very strong candidate as heiress of everything but Greece and Macedonia specially if married to a son of Hephaistion or Krateros (so another descendant of the Persian Queen Mother Sisygambis). Roxane's son, if he is born and had no half-brother, for keeping the throne will absolutely need to marry a daughter of either Stateira or Drypetis for consolidating his claim because Arrhidaeus in Macedonia, a son-in-law of Stateira and a son or son-in-law of Drypetis will have all easily an higher claim on either Macedonia or the rest of the Empire than him...
I think who Hephaistion, being secure on his position as regent in Asia, maybe decide to ally himself with Cynane and Eurydice and so give permission to the wedding between Philip and Eurydice, putting them as regents (or co-regents) only in Macedonia and Greece for securing that lands and the favour of the army and cavalry.


Don’t you think that Cynane and Eurydice would try to compete with Alexander IV (Alexander’s son by Roxane), especially if Arrhidaeus can sire a son by Eurydice? Cuz that would present the option of a full-blooded Macedonian as ruler. Also, if you want to see this as a timeline, go vote in my thread on which timeline to do, here (https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/timeline-ideas.444436/).
 
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