WI: Henry VIII's Great Matter Avoided.

It has probably been posted before, but being new to this and having great difficulty using the search function I'm going to post it anyway.

Do you think there is any possible way for Pope Clement VII to grant Henry the anulment that he desperatley wanted? It seems unlikely with the pope being kept prisoner by Charles V, but if we remove the Spanish Emperor from the question then the possibility increases some what.

If Henry did gain his anulment do we think there still would of been a reformation? I'm of the opinion that there would of been, but under one of Henry's heirs. Although protestantism hadn't arrived in England with quite the same force as it had in parts of Germany, there were still a considerable number of reformed thinkers in strong positions.
 
Pope Clemens VII was virtually a prisoner of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V who was also the uncle of Catherine of Aragon... If Clemens VII signed the annulement he would have been kicked out by Charles in no time... Plus according to Canon Law the Pope cannot annul a marriage on the basis of a canonical impediment previously dispensed (Pope Julius II had issued a Bull in 1507 if i remember correctly which dispensed the impediment of consaguinity and allowed the marriage) so Clemens VII was legaly incapable to annul the marriage because of Julius's II Bull...
 
well the whole grisly matter could certainly be avoided by making dear old Catherine just choke to death on a fishbone. happened all the time back then.

therrible tragedy...loss of the queen...mourned forever...so I've heard about an Anne Boleyn who's supposed to be fantastic between the sheets, anyone know where she's at now.
 
Pope Clemens VII was virtually a prisoner of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V who was also the uncle of Catherine of Aragon... If Clemens VII signed the annulement he would have been kicked out by Charles in no time... Plus according to Canon Law the Pope cannot annul a marriage on the basis of a canonical impediment previously dispensed (Pope Julius II had issued a Bull in 1507 if i remember correctly which dispensed the impediment of consaguinity and allowed the marriage) so Clemens VII was legaly incapable to annul the marriage because of Julius's II Bull...

noted, all of this is true, though, Clemens VII was almost freed by the French allies of England and almost gave Henry every thing he wanted, then the French fell apart in Italy and it all went to pot for Henry, maybe French Victory at Naples in 1527, French rule Italy Henry gets his anulment.
 
noted, all of this is true, though, Clemens VII was almost freed by the French allies of England and almost gave Henry every thing he wanted, then the French fell apart in Italy and it all went to pot for Henry, maybe French Victory at Naples in 1527, French rule Italy Henry gets his anulment.

Even then Clemens VII has to find a loophole in Canon Law to bypass the Bull of Dispensation issued by Julius II in 1507... If he cant find a legal way to bypass the Bull then his hands are tied even if he is not threatened by Charles V...
 
What do people think about the chances of an English Reformation, do you think if Henry secures his anulment that England will still reform.
 
What do people think about the chances of an English Reformation, do you think if Henry secures his anulment that England will still reform.

Good question. Remember that Henry was awarded the title "defender of the faith" by the pope (what irony), because of his defense of Catholicism against Lutheranism. Even when set himself up as head of the English church, the church was only a very mildly revised Catholicism. That did change some during his lifetime, but more in his children's.

OTOH, protestants (calvinists and lutherans) are making some significant inroads in the middle class/merchant community.

I would suspect that protestants (at least the noisy ones) get persecuted, and that England stays RC, but Scotland went Calvinist over the best efforts of its monarch, so England might, too. It's hard to say.

What you would NOT have is an Anglican church like you have today.
 
Good question. Remember that Henry was awarded the title "defender of the faith" by the pope (what irony), because of his defense of Catholicism against Lutheranism. Even when set himself up as head of the English church, the church was only a very mildly revised Catholicism. That did change some during his lifetime, but more in his children's.

OTOH, protestants (calvinists and lutherans) are making some significant inroads in the middle class/merchant community.

I would suspect that protestants (at least the noisy ones) get persecuted, and that England stays RC, but Scotland went Calvinist over the best efforts of its monarch, so England might, too. It's hard to say.

What you would NOT have is an Anglican church like you have today.

If England stays Roman Catholic and Scotland turns Calvinistic then future Kings would have a serious problem when (and if) Union of the Crowns occurs...
 
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