WI: Henry VIII had married Margaret of Angouleme?

This is an idea I've always been fond of so wanted to throw out there. What if, instead of marrying Katherine of Aragon, Henry VIII had married Margaret of Angouleme, sister to Francois I of France? Maybe they marry between 1505 and 1509, after Henry has been forced to forswear his betrothal to KOA, but before Henry VIII dies. What happens to Anglo-French relations? And does Henry get his heir any sooner than OTL?
 
Well...six wives. God knows how many mistresses. Only four (afaik) children who survived to adulthood. I don't think it was the women who were providing the defective gametes in the job. I don't see his heir situation improving.
 
Well...six wives. God knows how many mistresses. Only four (afaik) children who survived to adulthood. I don't think it was the women who were providing the defective gametes in the job. I don't see his heir situation improving.

And both KoA and Anne Boleyn's defense they've got genetic-theories coupled to each. And Henry didn't do too badly in the bastard section during the 1520s. Plus, the fact that Marguerite popped out a baby when it was probably expected that she was over the hill (followed by a second child - who admittedly died in infancy), I think Henry's prospects of an heir in the 1510s looks reasonably promising. Plus, there isn't all that fasting and religious observances carried to the extreme from Katherine...
 
And both KoA and Anne Boleyn's defense they've got genetic-theories coupled to each. And Henry didn't do too badly in the bastard section during the 1520s. Plus, the fact that Marguerite popped out a baby when it was probably expected that she was over the hill (followed by a second child - who admittedly died in infancy), I think Henry's prospects of an heir in the 1510s looks reasonably promising. Plus, there isn't all that fasting and religious observances carried to the extreme from Katherine...

That's what I was thinking. I doubt it would be 100% easy for them, but perhaps 2 or 3 surviving kids wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Marguerite is almost a decade younger than KOA, too, so that's got to count in her favour as well.

And what would Henry's French bride do for his sister Mary's marriage prospects? I doubt she's marrying King Louis in this scenario. England do already have a French alliance, after all.
 
That's what I was thinking. I doubt it would be 100% easy for them, but perhaps 2 or 3 surviving kids wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Marguerite is almost a decade younger than KOA, too, so that's got to count in her favour as well.

And what would Henry's French bride do for his sister Mary's marriage prospects? I doubt she's marrying King Louis in this scenario. England do already have a French alliance, after all.

Presumably Louis XII remarries to Eleonore of Austria and Mary Tudor to Karl V? Alençon would be left without a chair in this game, since IIRC, by the time Marge was offered/considered for either Henry/Fernando II of Aragon, she was already married to Alençon, wasn't she?
 
That's what I was thinking. I doubt it would be 100% easy for them, but perhaps 2 or 3 surviving kids wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Marguerite is almost a decade younger than KOA, too, so that's got to count in her favour as well.

And what would Henry's French bride do for his sister Mary's marriage prospects? I doubt she's marrying King Louis in this scenario. England do already have a French alliance, after all.
So three kids, perhaps two surviving to adulthood. What would names be? I'm imagining at least one Henry, and perhaps a Francis, and possibly a daughter named for her mother?

Double-marriage alliances did happen, so if both marriages did occur, then the Anglo-French alliance would be strengthened.
 
So three kids, perhaps two surviving to adulthood. What would names be? I'm imagining at least one Henry, and perhaps a Francis, and possibly a daughter named for her mother?

Double-marriage alliances did happen, so if both marriages did occur, then the Anglo-French alliance would be strengthened.

I was thinking maybe 2 daughters and a son. I thought perhaps Elizabeth for their eldest daughter and Frances for their second. Tempted by George for their son, purely for something different, but in all honesty, he's most likely Henry after his father..
 
Presumably Louis XII remarries to Eleonore of Austria and Mary Tudor to Karl V? Alençon would be left without a chair in this game, since IIRC, by the time Marge was offered/considered for either Henry/Fernando II of Aragon, she was already married to Alençon, wasn't she?

Apparently the first time Margaret was offered for Henry, it was 1502. She was 10 and Henry had just been made Prince of Wales. She was rebuffed. Or rather her mother was. Maybe on this occasion, she's not. Perhaps Arthur survives the sweat (but still doesn't outlive his father) and so Margaret is seen as a suitable bride for the Duke of York?
 
I was thinking maybe 2 daughters and a son. I thought perhaps Elizabeth for their eldest daughter and Frances for their second. Tempted by George for their son, purely for something different, but in all honesty, he's most likely Henry after his father..
Okay, so Henry is named Prince of Wales. Good start
 
Yes, Henry Prince of Wales, probably born about 1509/1510. Their eldest daughter can be Elizabeth after Henry's mother and then a second daughter (TTL Mary I) can be Frances, born in 1515/16, just after Margaret's brother has become King of France, hence her being named in his honour...

Obviously there'd be a few miscarriages/stillbirths mixed in there - you can't make it too easy on this royal pair!
 
Well, someone on another thread has pointed out that Margaret isn't high-ranking enough for Henry until her brother becomes King, so unless I want to delay the marriage until 1515, which would be difficult for all sorts of reasons, I have going to have to keep Arthur alive for a bit longer, methinks.
 
Margaret is an unlikely choice as bride for Henry as she is not high ranking enough for him until her brother became King and Henry was engaged to much more prestigious princesses (first Katherine then Eleanor of Austria) and had few reasons for marrying a junior princess like Margaret who is not (yet) a close relative of a King of France.
If you want a French match for Henry you need someone else: more logical choices are a Suzanne of Bourbon who is not her father’s heiress (she is the granddaughter of Louis XI and niece of Charles VIII) or Germaine of Foix (niece of Louis XII) or Anne or Magdalena of Navarre. Margaret is out of question as she is not high ranking enough for the future King while her mother and Louis XII are much more interested in marrying her to Alençon than to the Duke of York...
I can not see any way in which a match between them would be looked as favorable from both sides...
Killing off both Alençon and Katherine around 1515 also do not work unless Margaret had a child (a son would be better) with Alençon or his inheritance will go to his sister instead of his wife (pretty unlikely considering Louis XII arranged the match because he was interested in keeping the lands of Alen+on in the family and Francis will naturally favour his own sister over her sister-in-law)
Is easier using Germaine, Suzanne or one of the Navarrese girls as French match for Henry
 
Margaret is an unlikely choice as bride for Henry as she is not high ranking enough for him until her brother became King and Henry was engaged to much more prestigious princesses (first Katherine then Eleanor of Austria) and had few reasons for marrying a junior princess like Margaret who is not (yet) a close relative of a King of France.
If you want a French match for Henry you need someone else: more logical choices are a Suzanne of Bourbon who is not her father’s heiress (she is the granddaughter of Louis XI and niece of Charles VIII) or Germaine of Foix (niece of Louis XII) or Anne or Magdalena of Navarre. Margaret is out of question as she is not high ranking enough for the future King while her mother and Louis XII are much more interested in marrying her to Alençon than to the Duke of York...
I can not see any way in which a match between them would be looked as favorable from both sides...
Killing off both Alençon and Katherine around 1515 also do not work unless Margaret had a child (a son would be better) with Alençon or his inheritance will go to his sister instead of his wife (pretty unlikely considering Louis XII arranged the match because he was interested in keeping the lands of Alen+on in the family and Francis will naturally favour his own sister over her sister-in-law)
Is easier using Germaine, Suzanne or one of the Navarrese girls as French match for Henry

I realise it's unlikely, but I've always been intrigued by Marguerite, not least because I believe she was extremely influential in how Anne Boleyn turned out. If Henry fell for Anne, why not Margaret?

Besides, she's far closer in age to Henry than KOA was, and I don't believe she is really too low--born for the Duke of York. Her brother was the French heir presumptive, after all, and married the eldest daughter of King Louis. I feel that, as long as Arthur survives a couple more years, a match between Henry and Marguerite stands at least a chance of happening. At least Margaret is a foreign match, unlike girls such as Isabel and Anne Neville, who married a Prince of Wales, may I point out...
 
I realise it's unlikely, but I've always been intrigued by Marguerite, not least because I believe she was extremely influential in how Anne Boleyn turned out. If Henry fell for Anne, why not Margaret?

Besides, she's far closer in age to Henry than KOA was, and I don't believe she is really too low--born for the Duke of York. Her brother was the French heir presumptive, after all, and married the eldest daughter of King Louis. I feel that, as long as Arthur survives a couple more years, a match between Henry and Marguerite stands at least a chance of happening. At least Margaret is a foreign match, unlike girls such as Isabel and Anne Neville, who married a Prince of Wales, may I point out...
The point is another: Alençon is a much better match for Marguerite than Henry if the latter is still only the Duke of York while the Prince of Wales would have much more prestigious matches in Katherine of Aragon or Eleanor of Austria...

Isabel and Anne Neville were daughters and heiresses of a man who was really powerful and not casually named “Kingmaker” plus the Prince of Wales who married Anne was an exile without any power and the wedding was the price for the support of Anne’s father, indispensable for trying an invasion and win back the English Crown (and likely the wedding was not consummated on order of the groom’s mother who maybe hoped to have the wedding annulled after winning)
 
The point is another: Alençon is a much better match for Marguerite than Henry if the latter is still only the Duke of York while the Prince of Wales would have much more prestigious matches in Katherine of Aragon or Eleanor of Austria...

Isabel and Anne Neville were daughters and heiresses of a man who was really powerful and not casually named “Kingmaker” plus the Prince of Wales who married Anne was an exile without any power and the wedding was the price for the support of Anne’s father, indispensable for trying an invasion and win back the English Crown (and likely the wedding was not consummated on order of the groom’s mother who maybe hoped to have the wedding annulled after winning)

And how do you explain Margaret of Anjou marrying Henry VI? She's none of those things!

Regardless, I agree that the posited match is unlikely, but it strikes me as an amusing one to play with. Indulge me and help me work out the consequences? Please?
 
And how do you explain Margaret of Anjou marrying Henry VI? She's none of those things!

Regardless, I agree that the posited match is unlikely, but it strikes me as an amusing one to play with. Indulge me and help me work out the consequences? Please?
Everything depend on what offers are on the table for what King... Margaret of Anjou was a proxy French princess offered by their King and Henry VI was interested in a French match (and likely had not better offers) so that match happened. Marguerite instead had either two different rivals both of them of higher rank and more well connected than her or she a home match more valuable than the one to a second son...

I am not sure of what opinion about religion will have a Margaret married to Henry but surely her court as Queen of England will be well know as cultural center and Margaret and Henry having children (specially sons) early would likely bring to a closer alliance between France and England and a wedding/double wedding in the next generation would be also likely (an English princess for the Dauphin and/or a French princess for the prince of Wales)
 
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