WI: Henry VII marries prior to taking the throne?

1471: Henry Tudor, Earl of Richmond flees England with other Lancastrians to Brittany, where he spent most of the next 14 years.

1481: Henry Tudor meets Louis, Duke of Orleans. The two strike up a friendship and Louis vows to help his friend take the throne of England. As a way of proving this, Henry marries the Duke's sister Anne de Orleans later in the year.

1482: The couple's first child, Margaret Tudor, is born. Edward IV dies and Richard, Duke of Gloucester usurps the throne.

1483: Henry Tudor welcomes his son and heir, Henry Tudor.

1484: Rumours swirl the sons of Edward IV have died at their uncle's hand. Richard III of England loses his son and heir.

1485: Anne Neville, Queen of England, dies. Her husband then loses at the Battle of Bosworth Field and Henry Tudor, the final Lancastrian claimant, takes the throne.

1486: Henry VII's second son, named Edmund Tudor, is born. His eldest son is betrothed to the youngest daughter od Edward V, Bridget Tudor.

1487: Elizabeth of York, eldest daughter of Edward IV, is married to Manuel, Duke of Viseu and Beja.

1489: Henry VII welcomes a third son, Owen Tudor. His eldest is formerly invested with the title Prince of Wales and his second with the title Duke of York, after rumours swirl the second son of Edward IV is still alive.

1491: Edmund Tudor, Duke of York, is betrothed to Catherine of Aragon, youngest daughter of Ferdinand II of Aragon and Isabella I of Castile.

1492: Henry VII welcomes a second daughter, the short lived Mary Tudor. She dies 3 months after birth. Owen Tudor is created the Duke of Gloucester.

1493: Margaret Tudor is betrothed to James IV of Scotland.

1495: Queen Anne gives birth to a stillborn son.

1496: Henry VII welcomes a third daughter, Catherine Tudor. Queen Anne dies shortly after this birth. The king is heartbroken but begins looking for a second bride.

1497: James IV of Scotland and Margaret Tudor are married. Henry Tudor, Prince of Wales marries Bridget of York.

1498: Henry VII of England marries the widowed Joanna of Naples.

1500: Joanna of Naples gives birth to a stillborn son. Catherine of Aragon arrives in England and marries the Duke of York.

1503: Joanna of Naples gives birth to Jasper Tudor.

1504: Joanna of Naples gives birth to Anne Tudor, who is betrothed to Charles of Castile.

1510: Catherine Tudor marries Frederick III, Elector of Saxony.

1511: Jasper Tudor is made the Duke of Bedford and betrothed to Renee of France.

1513: Henry VII dies, his son Henry VIII ascends the throne.
 
Without disaffected yorkist support, I do not think he would of defeated Richard, and I do not think he would of gotten that support without his betrothal to Elizabeth of York, he deffinately wouldn't of got the woodville support. Most likely what happens is Henry dies and Richard continues to reign as king.

If he did manage to he would of had larger and more widespread rebellions, and the war of the roses would of lasted for at least another generation or two, and henry's claim is weak, he wouldn't of most likely been on the winning side, he didn't really have the moral weight without elizabeth of york. He would of went from a usurper with his future children having a strong claim, to just a usurper with a weak claim.
 
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What about:
1498: Henry VII of England marries Anne or Catherine of York (both daughter of Edward IV)
 
What about:
1498: Henry VII of England marries Anne or Catherine of York (both daughter of Edward IV)

That might help somewhat, but it would still leave his son and heir with an illegitimate and weak claim to the throne. In this scenerio I doubt henry vii would last that long anyways. Maybe if he betrothed his heir to someone with a strong claim. Catherine of Aragon, married to Henry VII in otl, would of been a decent match for ttl Henry VIII, atleast it would of increased his Lancastrian claim, somewhat. I can't really find a york heiress except Catherine of York, you might marry Henry VIII to her...

i still think he is doomed to be overthrown if he succeeded which isn't very likely to begin with (almost impossible).
 
That might help somewhat, but it would still leave his son and heir with an illegitimate and weak claim to the throne. In this scenerio I doubt henry vii would last that long anyways. Maybe if he betrothed his heir to someone with a strong claim. Catherine of Aragon, married to Henry VII in otl, would of been a decent match for ttl Henry VIII, atleast it would of increased his Lancastrian claim, somewhat. I can't really find a york heiress except Catherine of York, you might marry Henry VIII to her...

i still think he is doomed to be overthrown if he succeeded which isn't very likely to begin with (almost impossible).
While Woodville support was useful, it wasn't critical. A lot of other disaffected Yorkists were just happy with anyone who wasn't Richard. So it's possible he could succeed; he is the Lancastrian claimant in his own right. Edward IV did it successfully after all. And once he does become king, he will have patronage to give around to build up his loyal powerbase.

It will be more difficult, but not impossible to hold the throne; the Yorkists are also mostly out of feasible heirs (as no one would rally to a woman monarch at this time, both Simnel and Warbeck have their own issues, Warwick is in prison, and the Poles are too remote). Elizabeth and her sisters probably end up as either abbesses or permanent guests of the Tower.
 
Henry VII

Without disaffected yorkist support, I do not think he would of defeated Richard, and I do not think he would of gotten that support without his betrothal to Elizabeth of York, he deffinately wouldn't of got the woodville support. Most likely what happens is Henry dies and Richard continues to reign as king.

If he did manage to he would of had larger and more widespread rebellions, and the war of the roses would of lasted for at least another generation or two, and henry's claim is weak, he wouldn't of most likely been on the winning side, he didn't really have the moral weight without elizabeth of york. He would of went from a usurper with his future children having a strong claim, to just a usurper with a weak claim.

I agree. Margaret Beaufort really wanted Henry to marry Elizabeth. Henry was not a very strong marriage prospect as long as he was in exile in Brittany.
 
Interesting hypothesis but, in 1481, Henry Tudor was very much a fringe player and barely a throne claimant so I seriously doubt the Duke of Orleans would have been SO supportive to have had his own daughter marry him.

However; an AH in which Henry may have married another exiled Lancastrian noble's daughter or even secretly wed a Continental woman out of lust or boredom whom few considered to have any real rank may be somewhat plausible.
 
I tend to think of Henry VII before Richard III as how the queen of France says to Cesare Borgia in The Borgias:
"Not her...she's properly noble. For you? A bastard daughter of a minor aristocrat."
And when he promises to do what he can to void the king's annulment procedings and asks what is his reward, she responds.
"A duchess. Legitimate...maybe?"
Now Harry won't be scoring a duchess anytime soon, I don't think. Although there were plans to marry him to the Earl of Pembroke's daughter (who also happened to be Queen Elizabeth Wydeville's niece), so maybe a legitimate baroness?
 
Without disaffected yorkist support, I do not think he would of defeated Richard, and I do not think he would of gotten that support without his betrothal to Elizabeth of York, he deffinately wouldn't of got the woodville support. Most likely what happens is Henry dies and Richard continues to reign as king.
I agree. Margaret Beaufort really wanted Henry to marry Elizabeth. Henry was not a very strong marriage prospect as long as he was in exile in Brittany.
I'm of this opinion.
Interesting hypothesis but, in 1481, Henry Tudor was very much a fringe player and barely a throne claimant so I seriously doubt the Duke of Orleans would have been SO supportive to have had his own daughter marry him.
Indeed. He was so much a fringe player that he was on the verge of returning home in 1483, to take up the Honour of Richmond. Edward IV's death halted the negotiations, and by the end of the same year, he was a semi-serious prospect. It's his vow to marry Elizabeth - made when he is crowned in Brittany - that turns him into the contender.
 
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