WI: Henry VII dies of the Sweating Sickness?

The Yorkists probably would accept Jasper, seeing how it's a Yorkist who's reigning in this scenario.

You're right about the jealousy stuff tho.

I don't see the Edwardians siding with Lincoln/Warwick, but an alt Richard of York is a possibility

Why not Warwick? He was a legitimate nephew to Edward IV, so he's preferable to Jasper. And also, Lancastrians would see Jasper's marriage to EoY as a betrayal and probably would move on to supporting Edward Stafford (or, if Lancastrians don't want a child, that some of them could issue a fake of Henry VII's will in which he legitimsed Charles Somerset as a son of Henry Beaufort and named him his heir, I think John de Vere would prefer Charles I Beaufort to Jasper Tudor).
 
Why not Warwick
Because his father was a traitor and had been attained( historians everywhere argue on this, so I wouldn't Completely rule out the possibility)

You're right about the other points tho.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Warwick to EoY myself, but the legality is gonna be dodgy.
 
Because his father was a traitor and had been attained( historians everywhere argue on this, so I wouldn't Completely rule out the possibility)

You're right about the other points tho.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like Warwick to EoY myself, but the legality is gonna be dodgy.
Still, John de la Pole OTL fought for fake Warwick, so I'd say that he could gain at least some following among nobles. And as I said before, diehard Lancastrians would rather support king Charles I in his own right than king Jasper Tudor by marriage.
 
Still, John de la Pole OTL fought for fake Warwick, so I'd say that he could gain at least some following among nobles. And as I said before, diehard Lancastrians would rather support king Charles I in his own right than king Jasper Tudor by marriage.
The Ricardians may or may not support EoY, it depends on how John reacts. I did say that theEdwardians wouldn't back Warwick/Lincoln.


And, like you, I seriously don't think that Jasper's gonna get any support from the Lancastrians, hell, even Margaret Beaufort wouldn't support him.
 
The Ricardians may or may not support EoY, it depends on how John reacts. I did say that theEdwardians wouldn't back Warwick/Lincoln.


And, like you, I seriously don't think that Jasper's gonna get any support from the Lancastrians, hell, even Margaret Beaufort wouldn't support him.
Most of Edwardians would probably remain loyal to Elizabeth of York, but some of them might get butthurt at her marriage to Jasper and join Warwick. It won't be a large number, but still, it would be notable. John de la Pole didn't accept actual Plantagenet descendant, Henry VII as his king, he won't accept Jasper with no claim as his master either. Judging from his behaviour OTL, he'd support Warwick. I think that Margaret would brains behind "legitimisation" of Charles Somerset.
 
Most of Edwardians would probably remain loyal to Elizabeth of York, but some of them might get butthurt at her marriage to Jasper and join Warwick. It won't be a large number, but still, it would be notable. John de la Pole didn't accept actual Plantagenet descendant, Henry VII as his king, he won't accept Jasper with no claim as his master either. Judging from his behaviour OTL, he'd support Warwick. I think that Margaret would brains behind "legitimisation" of Charles Somerset.
Couldn't there be talk of marrying Warwick to Elizabeth?
 
Oh? That's odd, I don't think it would be beyond the realm of possibility.
I re-read through this thread, the idea hasn't been fully shot down, but Lincoln and Jasper and one of the Straffords have all been suggested as more practical/likely.

(Sry I exaggerated a bit😅, I originally read this at 3 AM so the details were fuzzy)
 
Since the plan is to get the most Yorkists onboard with the previously victorious Lancastrians and settle the rivalry, both Jaspar and Lincoln are not likely to marry EoY as that loses support from the Lancastrians.
So the question is which of the York-Lancaster arrangements from my previous post will grant the most support from Jaspar, Stanley, Lincoln, Percy, etc?
So if we're continuing the idea of a York-Lancaster rule then one of the York girls needs to marry one of the Beaufort descended boys - Edward Stafford, Henry Stafford, Thomas St Lawrence
Or one of the York boys to a Beaufort girl - Margaret Spencer, Katharine Spencer, the Pastons, the Stafford girls, etc.
Eldest to eldest, and most senior, preferably.
Worth noting that Jaspar ITTL is as free to marry the Dowager Duchess of Buckingham as he was OTL.
The bastard Charles Somerset might be an option but he is untitled with a pretty clear illegitimacy so I'm not sure how much support of the Lancastrians he'd gain versus the potential loss of Yorkist support.
Margaret Beaufort might also need buying off with the Earldom of Somerset or something, depending on which marriage is arranged, as would Stanley who got Derby OTL out of the Lancaster inheritance.
 
Indeed indeed
And than Lancastrians, even if they wanted to, cannot support Jasper, because without Elisabeth, he is no one. That's why Margaret B. might come up with fake of Henry VII's will legitimizing Somerset and making him his heir, or Lancastrians could outright proclaim Somerset king, after all William the Bastard was also a bastard and he still became king.
 
And than Lancastrians, even if they wanted to, cannot support Jasper, because without Elisabeth, he is no one. That's why Margaret B. might come up with fake of Henry VII's will legitimizing Somerset and making him his heir, or Lancastrians could outright proclaim Somerset king, after all William the Bastard was also a bastard and he still became king.
How would Henry VII's will legitimize Somerset? Wasn't that upto the father?

William the Conqueror had some support and a title and money, and the most Somerset can muster rn is very basic support
 
I suppose he could, but wouldn't Henry rather have Jasper, the man who has fought for him all of his life be king consort, as opposed to some cousin that he probably never met?
But the issue is, that this will is essentially a fake, made by Henry's mom and Oxford to prevent Jasper's ascension.

Henry VII wouldn't be king TTL.
Also, I don't think there's a precedent at this point of time
His followers considered him a king.
 
Richard Duke of York was considered king as well, so was literally every claimant ever, but said claimants wouldn't become king unless they were crowned.
But the issue is, that this will is essentially a fake, made by Henry's mom and Oxford to prevent Jasper's ascension.



His followers considered him a king.
 
Yes he wasn't crowned by the time of his death here, but with de facto control of England by conquest, he was essentially the king
De facto control don't mean nothing here, he wasn't crowned, and as such had no right to legitimize a bastard. It wouldn't be realistic either, as has been noted.
Also, Somerset is untitled here, so we've gotta keep that in mind.
Also, where is a precedent? If a living king never legitimized bastards, I don't see a dead claimant legitimizing one flying.....
 
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