WI: Henry V and Matilda had a son

Stolengood

Banned
...you really should've specified which Henry V you meant in the title; I was imagining Prince Hal canoodling with a distant ancestor! :eek:
 
Does anything relevant change, like Henry V living longer? Or does he just manage to sire a son on her before he dies?

There's a Salian England timeline on this site, which might be worth reading - but its not the best.

But the little princeling is heir to both England and (for what that's worth) the empire, which is potentially immensely interesting.
 
Does anything relevant change, like Henry V living longer? Or does he just manage to sire a son on her before he dies?

There's a Salian England timeline on this site, which might be worth reading - but its not the best.

But the little princeling is heir to both England and (for what that's worth) the empire, which is potentially immensely interesting.
I think there is a possibility of Henry V of HRE pulling a Philip the Handsome on Matilda and her son pulls a Charles V.
 
I am not sure I follow what you mean by "pulling a Philip the Handsome", or "pulling a Charles V".

He means inheriting a massive empire, like Charles V did. And I believe he means for Henry V to become King of England, usurping his wife's rights, like Philip the Handsome did to Juana.
 
He means inheriting a massive empire, like Charles V did. And I believe he means for Henry V to become King of England, usurping his wife's rights, like Philip the Handsome did to Juana.

Given that Henry has a lot on his hands as Emperor, I can't see any reason he would try to have to deal with England & Normandy on top of that in 1035- (assuming he outlives his father in law). Not only his hands full but a title so prestigious and important that "and King of England" would almost be a step down to spend any significant time on.

The kid is a good question, though.
 
Physically, I doubt England and the HRE are actually governable by the same person in this period. The HRE was a notoriously loose and rebellious entity, it required a high degree of personal dedication by a constantly itinerant emperor. England also needed a very firm hand after the Anarchy, as it got under Henry II. Given the geography involved - Northumbria to Umbria - I doubt any one person can physically do both at the same time. Not successfully, anyway.

Matilda wouldn't let the issue of her rights drop, and I would expect her husband - if he lives long enough, he predeceased Henry I by ten years IOTL - or her son to support and finance her attempts to win England, but I doubt either are going to invest in it personally themselves or to the serious detriment of the HRE. That would be more than a touch quixotic.
 
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So, maybe after Henry V's death, Matilda actually gets married to the man she got married in OTL, Geoffroy of Anjou.

Her son by Henry V would be very much a minor after all, and I don't see Henry V living all that much longer than he actually did, so all things being equal-Henry Adelin drowning on schedule, etc-Henry I of England would probably still require that Matilda marry again, and I don't really see any reason why it should be Geoffroy of Anjou.

So, there's the oldest son-fathered by Henry V-and maybe others after-fathered by Geoffroy.

What kind of PODS and complications would that create?
 
So, maybe after Henry V's death, Matilda actually gets married to the man she got married in OTL, Geoffroy of Anjou

If Henry V dies at the same time as OTL, you mean? Nah. Matilda will be regent for her son in Germany.
 
So, maybe after Henry V's death, Matilda actually gets married to the man she got married in OTL, Geoffroy of Anjou.

Her son by Henry V would be very much a minor after all, and I don't see Henry V living all that much longer than he actually did, so all things being equal-Henry Adelin drowning on schedule, etc-Henry I of England would probably still require that Matilda marry again, and I don't really see any reason why it should be Geoffroy of Anjou.

So, there's the oldest son-fathered by Henry V-and maybe others after-fathered by Geoffroy.

What kind of PODS and complications would that create?

Why not have Thierry of Alsace or William Clito marry Matilda, I see those marriages could help the son of Matilda in the HRE.
 
A son of Henry V and Matilda could presumably spend his career making good his claims to England, Normandy and Flanders and/or using those places as bases from which to quell the German rabble he has inherited.
 
A son of Henry V and Matilda could presumably spend his career making good his claims to England, Normandy and Flanders and/or using those places as bases from which to quell the German rabble he has inherited.

Or he could swap the Kingdom of Arles for Flanders and Normandy causing France to be more Mediterranean oriented.
 
So, maybe after Henry V's death, Matilda actually gets married to the man she got married in OTL, Geoffroy of Anjou.

Her son by Henry V would be very much a minor after all, and I don't see Henry V living all that much longer than he actually did, so all things being equal-Henry Adelin drowning on schedule, etc-Henry I of England would probably still require that Matilda marry again, and I don't really see any reason why it should be Geoffroy of Anjou.

So, there's the oldest son-fathered by Henry V-and maybe others after-fathered by Geoffroy.

What kind of PODS and complications would that create?

Henry V was thirty-nine when he died - he could easily live another decade. Or two.

I wonder as far as the English succession goes how the little one (anyone want to actually name this hypothetical son?) impacts things. Making men swear to acknowledge his grandson might be easier than the daughter.
 
Henry V was thirty-nine when he died - he could easily live another decade. Or two.

In this case, it would probably mean that he and Matilda would have more than one child. After all, she did have three boys with Geoffrey IOTL.
 
Depending on when their son is born, Matilda's son *might* be pretty close to being of age (at least early teens) when Henry I first dies. By contrast, Matilda's boys by Geoffrey of Anjou were toddlers on Henry I's death. You might cut the daughter out of the equation in the civil war in favour of the grandson.
 
Henry V was thirty-nine when he died - he could easily live another decade. Or two.

I wonder as far as the English succession goes how the little one (anyone want to actually name this hypothetical son?) impacts things. Making men swear to acknowledge his grandson might be easier than the daughter.

Almost certainly called Henry (son of one King, grandson of another).
And likely sworn in as King of England on Henry I's death.
His hold on the HRE is another thing entirely. I could see him losing it but that one of his sons gains it.
 
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