WI: Henry Tudor Dies in 1502

I was thinking about this and was wondering what would be the consequences of Henry Tudor, later Henry VIII, dying in 1502 from the same illness which killed his older brother Arthur?

Who would of been named heir to the English throne, Margaret Tudor? Mary Tudor? Or would England not have accepted a female Monarch at this time.

Could it possibly lead to an earlier Union of the Crowns with Margaret and James IV ruling England, eventually leading to James V taking the throne?

Also with Henry VII having seized the throne in 1485 could the Wars of the Roses be renewed, with no secure male succsesion to the English throne? Could the de la Pole family have been used by Yorkists to compromise the now weak position of the Tudor dynasty

What would the effects have been on Henry VII, could the grief of sped up his demise and ended his reign a few years earlier?
 
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Looking at the previous discussion, I doubt Henry would allow his daughter to marry a foreign king. In fact, I expect he'd keep both daughters unmarried while he lived.

According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know) the Papal dispensation that Henry got after the death of his older son allowed him or the younger son to marry Catherine of Aragon. With no male heir, I think Henry would use the dispensation himself.

But on his death, things do get complicated. Any surviving son would be six at the oldest. Catherine herself would probably have several potential suitors, not all of them merely wanting to assume the regency.

Margaret Tudor might put forth a claim at this time and would also attract suitors. She was a canny politician, though she seemed to have poor taste in husbands.

Mary Tudor is only 13, and less of a target for an advantageous marriage. OTOH, Charles Brandon married her without the King's permission in OTL. With a child King, Brandon might do that earlier than in OTL, after the death of his previous wife. And he seems have been a decent military commander, so he might have ended up regent.

Edmund de la Pole will raise the Yorkist banner. He's married, so not likely to be seeking marriage with Catherine, Margaret, or Mary. And Charles Brandon, whose father was killed in combat by Richard III at Bosworth may not be exactly fond of Yorkists.
 
Looking at the previous discussion, I doubt Henry would allow his daughter to marry a foreign king. In fact, I expect he'd keep both daughters unmarried while he lived.

I'm not so sure about it. While I understand that he wouldn't want a foreigner to rule England, at the same he need to ensure that someone powerful enough would protect the right of his issue to the throne. James IV still makes sense, it would finally unite both thrones, ending the conflicts with Scotland and making England stronger. Also, it avoids to the problem of choosing one English noble family over all the others.

According to Wikipedia (yeah, I know) the Papal dispensation that Henry got after the death of his older son allowed him or the younger son to marry Catherine of Aragon. With no male heir, I think Henry would use the dispensation himself.

I also believe he would do it, but it doesn't necessarily means Henry VII wouldn't make a "plan B" using Margaret and possibly Mary also.
 
Basically, Gonzaga is right. Essentially, H7 actually stated that he didn't mind the possibility of a Scottish succession because regardless of who had ruled which country originally, England's greater population and stronger economy would mean it would "win out" in the combination. Now mind you of course he would say this considering he wanted his daughter to have a happy marriage and for James to have every incentive to treat Margaret well, so it may not have been sincere. But there's a certain strategic soundness to that assessment, nevertheless.
 
The largest problem facing the Crown was the lack of suitable heirs if Henry VII lost both his sons.
The House of Plantagenet was extinct in all branches in the male line.
There were numerous possible heirs but none of what would be regarded by contemporaries as being of Royal Blood or as having a true claim.
The de la Pole's claim that i think was mentioned was exceptionally weak and the surviving de la Pole's were poor, in exile and generally not thought much of by anyone. Of course the death of Henry VII's wife and both sons would have opened things up.
A possible suitable new wife that no-one has mentioned is Margaret Plantagenet - cousin of his wife (papal dispensation would be needed) but she was widowed in 1504, was popular with his mother and was devout and clearly fertile.

Yorkist Plantagenet line as of 1503:
1) ELIZABETH of York Queen of England etc (eldest surviving child of Edward IV)
2) HENRY Tudor Duke of York (eldest surviving son of Elizabeth of York eldest daughter of Edward IV)
3) MARGARET Tudor Queen of Scots (eldest daughter of Elizabeth of York eldest child of Edward IV)
4) MARY Tudor (second surviving daughter of Elizabeth of York eldest child of Edward IV)
5) CECILY of York (b1469 d1507) - daughter of Edward IV but in disgrace due to her remarriage to Thomas Kyme.
6) ANNE of York (b 1475 d 1511) next surviving daughter of Edward IV - married to Thomas Howard 2nd Earl of Surrey (they had no surviving children)
7) CATHERINE of York (b1479 d 1527) - married to William Courtenay, 1st Earl of Devon
and had issue - her husband was placed under attainder in 1504 and wasn't restored to his estates until after Henry VII's death
8) HENRY Courtenay (b1496)
9) MARGARET Courtenay (b1499)
10) BRIDGET of York (1480 d1517) - a nun
11) MARGARET Plantagenet daughter of George Duke of Clarence (b1473) her father's attainder wouldn't technically bar her the succession) married to Sir Reginald Pole (he died in 1505) - Margaret was popular with the King's mother Margaret Beaufort and was in Catherine of Aragon's household until the death of the Prince Arthur. High in favour during Henry VIII's early reign it was he who reversed her brother's attainder and allowed her to succeed as Countess of Salisbury.
she has issue
12) HENRY Pole (b 1492)
13) REGINALD (b1500)
14) GEOFFREY (b1501)
15) ARTHUR (b1502)
Ursula (b1504)
16) ANNE St Leger (1476 to 1526) - only surviving child of Edward IV's eldest sister Anne Duchess of Exeter. Married to Sir George Manners Baron de Ros (d1513) one surviving son
17) THOMAS (created Earl of Rutland)
18) ELIZABETH of York Duchess of Suffolk (died 1503) sister of Edward IV.
Her children:
John de la Pole, 1st Earl of Lincoln (c. 1462-16 June 1487). NO SURVIVING ISSUE.
Elizabeth de la Pole (c. 1468-1489). Married to Henry Lovel, Lord Morley. NO ISSUE
19) EDMUND de la Pole, 6th Earl of Suffolk (1471- executed 30 April 1513). NO ISSUE TITLES FORFEIT
20) HUMPHREY de la Pole (1474-1513). In Holy Orders.
21) WILLIAM de la Pole, (1478-1539). NO ISSUE
22) RICHARD de la Pole (1480-24 February 1525). Killed at the Battle of Pavia. NO ISSUE
23) CATHERINE de la Pole (c. 1477-1513). Married to William, 5th Lord Stourton. NO ISSUE
Next would be
24) MARGARET of York Duchess of Burgundy (died 1503)
That would exhaust the descendants of Richard Duke of York and Cecily Neville
Strict primogeniture would next pass the rights in the York line in descent from Lionel Duke of Clarence to Isabel sister of Richard Duke of York and her numerous descendants.
The Plantagenet Lancaster Succession was even more complex -
if you take strict primogeniture and accept the legality of the Beaufort succession then in the following direction:
1) Descendants of Henry VI - none
2) Descendants of Henry V - none
3) Descendants of Henry IV - none
4) Descedants of John of Gaunt Duke of Lancaster -
1) MARGARET Beaufort (1443 to 1509) (John of Gaunt - Henry Beaufort - John Beaufort - Margaret)
2) HENRY Tudor (VII King of England)
3) HENRY Tudor Duke of York
4) MARGARET Tudor Queen of Scots
5) MARY Tudor
next would be the Stafford descendants of Margaret Beaufort's cousin another Margaret Beaufort they also were descended in the female line from the
6) EDWARD Stafford 3rd Duke of Buckingham
and so on
If you don't accept the Beaufort succession then the descendants of John of Gaunts eldest daughter Queen Phillippa of Portugal come first
1) MANUEL I King of Portugal followed by his eldest children (those born before 1504)
2) JOHN of Portugal (B1502)
3) ISABEL of Portugal (B1503)
4) MAXIMILIAN I Holy Roman Emperor (1459-1519) (Philippa of Lancaster - Edward of Portugal - Leonara of Portugal - Maximilian)
5) PHILIP Duke of Burgundy etc (1478 to 1506)
6) CHARLES of Burgundy (b1500)
7) FERDINAND of Burgundy (B103)
8) ELEANOR (b1498)
9) ISABELLA (B1501)
10) MARGARET of Austria (b1480)
11) KUNIGUNDE of Austria (b1465) (she had 8 surviving children)
 
If we take the situation of an earlier Union of the Crowns, with Margaret Tudor and James IV jointly ruling, with any Issue, James V, coming to inherit both thrones, what effect would this have on both the English and the Scottish reformation. Obviously it can be argued that the only reason there was an English reformation was Henry's desire to annul his marriage, but there were still reformists in England. Would it be possible that England is more influenced by the Presbytrian reforms which take place in Scotland. I wonder what the roles of Thomas Cranmer and Thomas Cromwell would be in such a scenario... Anyway I'm going slightly of on a tangent.

I think that Henry VII would certainly of allowed Margaret to marry a foreign King, as others have said it would secure the northern border, and allow England to concentrate its efforts more on the continent and Ireland. However I believe that many Yorkists would see the weakened position of H7 as extremely advantedgous, especially if Elizabeth dies on schedule in 1503.
 
Interestingly if the timeline follows our own from Elizabeth's death then the Scots marriage was likely to go ahead as the proxy marriage had already taken place.
It wouldn't have necessarily solved the succession crisis though Margaret's first child wasn't born until 1507 and died a year later, she gave birth to a stillborn daughter in 1508 and her third child born in 1509 also died at less than a year.
The attractions of Mary Tudor would significantly grow and the pressure on Henry VII to remarry would certainly intensify.
 
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