WI: Henry Frederick, Charles I's older brother, lives?


Henry was brought up by Calvinist-leaning teachers and resisted attempts for a Spanish match by his parents, so the French, Lorraine, Austrian matches are out, and so is Madam Gonzaga. Anne-Eleanore of Hesse-Darmstadt was 11 years old upon Henry's death to his 18, and Sophia Eleanore of Saxony was 3 years old, so they're both out. So, if Henry is looking to get married ASAP, that leaves the Brandenburg sisters and Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate.

Elizabeth Charlotte of the Palatinate

Maria Eleonora of Brandenburg

Anne Sophia of Brandenburg (15 March 1598 – 19 December 1659).

As for the Gunpowder Plot, I refer people to this article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/civil_war_revolution/gunpowder_hutton_01.shtml
 
I've read a bit more about Henry Frederick's marriage plans. Aside from the Spanish match, James and Anne had tried to arrange a marriage between Henry and either Maria Apollonia (b. 1594), daughter of Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Emmanuel_I,_Duke_of_Savoy), or Catherine de Medici (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_de'_Medici,_Governor_of_Siena). Henry refused both because they were Catholic. However, supposedly, Henry planned to find himself a German bride when he accompanied his sister, Elizabeth, to her marriage to Frederick of the Palatinate.

The more I read about James, Henry Frederick and Charles, the more I see similarities with the later relationship between King George II, Frederick, Prince of Wales, and William, Duke of Cumberland.
 
I've read a bit more about Henry Frederick's marriage plans. Aside from the Spanish match, James and Anne had tried to arrange a marriage between Henry and either Maria Apollonia (b. 1594), daughter of Charles Emmanuel I, Duke of Savoy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Emmanuel_I,_Duke_of_Savoy), or Catherine de Medici (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_de'_Medici,_Governor_of_Siena). Henry refused both because they were Catholic. However, supposedly, Henry planned to find himself a German bride when he accompanied his sister, Elizabeth, to her marriage to Frederick of the Palatinate.

The more I read about James, Henry Frederick and Charles, the more I see similarities with the later relationship between King George II, Frederick, Prince of Wales, and William, Duke of Cumberland.

In that James preferred Charles? Could this have led to mad conflict later?
 
In that James preferred Charles? Could this have led to mad conflict later?

In that the king saw his eldest son and heir as a rival and, yes, might have supported his younger son. IOTL, Charles still clashed with his father later in life, but in an ATL where Henry Frederick lives and possibly marries without his parent's consent, James and Anne might try to use Charles as a pawn against Henry Frederick, imposing their hopes and dreams for the future on him.

Something I might also point out, in regards to Henry Frederick's policies when he becomes king. IOTL, many royal heirs gained support by opposing everything their predecessors stand for, but once they get to power, they end up adopting some or all of their predecessor's policies. I'm not saying it absolutely would have happened to Henry Frederick, I'm just saying it could have happened.
 
According to Wikipedia he was fairly popular and was quite promising but he died at the age of 18. What if he had lived and Charles never got to be King?

Had Henry Frederick lived it is likely there'd be no civil war. No rise
Parliament nor that maniac Cromwell

I think that's probably a bit of an overstatement. Henry coming to the throne does not do much to remove the deep-rooted elements that fed into the Civil Wars (Irish plantation, religious tensions with Scotland, Puritanism in England, conflict between the monarchy and parliament generally over budgets and taxation, an influx of new ideas as part of the 17th century renaissance etc).

Remember that conflict between James I, and later Charles I, and parliament was always rooted in money. Which was usually rooted in warfare. Zealously Protestant Henry, who adored his sister and her husband Frederick Henry of the Palatine, may well have tried to intervene in the events in Bohemia that kicked off the Thirty Years War. So, instead of an England that stays out of the Wars by and large, you get an England plunged head-first into one of the most devastating European conflicts of the age. Henry is going to need money for that war, and for that money he is going to need taxes, and to raise taxes he needs (ultimately) to call Parliament. Maybe they would have voted him money at the start - they did with Charles OTL after all when he went to war with the Catholic powers (a war many in Parliament wanted btw) - but eventually you are going to see the same conflicts over fiscal policy emerge. I'm not saying that Civil War is inevitable, but just that having Henry over Charles is not the obvious solution.

I'm always intrigued that he's so often presented in alternate histories as "Henry the Great". He could easily have been an awful, over-zealous, domineering monarch.


In that James preferred Charles? Could this have led to mad conflict later?

Pretty much this:

In that the king saw his eldest son and heir as a rival and, yes, might have supported his younger son. IOTL, Charles still clashed with his father later in life, but in an ATL where Henry Frederick lives and possibly marries without his parent's consent, James and Anne might try to use Charles as a pawn against Henry Frederick, imposing their hopes and dreams for the future on him.

Also its worth pointing out that Charles was, on a personal level, ridiculously loyal to a fault. And very fond of Henry. I think it would take incredibly exceptional circumstances to see him act against Henry if the latter was king.
 
Interesting points id
Love to see how this develops. Especially if Henry is the one who founds th army.

Also would Charles have high church views of his brother is there to help influence him
 
Charles might have been loyal to Henry, bt Henry,like many older brothers, had little to no time for Chaz. He once told him (Charles) that the only future he could see for him, was as in the church, so that nobody would notice if he stammered and robes would cover his knock-knees. Now, Charles burst into tears at his brother's recommendation for a bishop, so while this could just be fraternal teasing - or an implication that Henry did see the threat Charles could pose down the line
 
As to possible wives, his aunt, the Danish queen, had her heart set on a match with her Brandenburger niece who later became the mother of Queen Christina
 
Charles might have been loyal to Henry, bt Henry,like many older brothers, had little to no time for Chaz. He once told him (Charles) that the only future he could see for him, was as in the church, so that nobody would notice if he stammered and robes would cover his knock-knees. Now, Charles burst into tears at his brother's recommendation for a bishop, so while this could just be fraternal teasing - or an implication that Henry did see the threat Charles could pose down the line

Maybe, but there is only one reference of this happening (the incident you describe) which tends to get repeated endlessly in biographies of Charles with little context. Maybe you are right that the remark about the Bishop was acknowledgement of potential threat, but equally it could be nothing as you also say. In the weeks leading up to his death, during Elizabeth's marriage festivities, Henry brought Charles into the events much more frequently. Some of the tension between the brothers was simply offshoot of Henry's poor relations with James, as both tried to take control of the young boy's court, education, and guardianship at various stages in the 1600s.

Besides, childish teasing is one thing, but even with the potential for threat I don't agree that Henry had little time for Charles. If Henry lives, Charles will be his supporter and his heir (until Henry reproduces) and chances are that without James, and the malign influence of Buckingham over Charles, they would have gotten on well.

The Stuarts aren't the Plantagenets - dynastic and family loyalty was a big thing for all of them (you can see this in Elizabeth's interactions in Europe after her marriage). Henry would probably set a lot of store by Charles's loyalty.
 
Something I would wonder is how Henry would cope with the issues that plagued Charles once he got to the throne (the majority of those issues were EXACERBATED by Charles, they didn't just materialize out of the ether). Sure we've got that he was intelligent and that he was "low church" supposedly, but neither means that he is gonna have an any better chance than Chuck in getting his way. Having a Protestant queen might help (but let's face it, most Protestant nations at the time were - excepting Sweden and Denmark - second-tier German states, not exactly players on the European chessboard the way Henriette Marie's France was (and if the 30YW goes as OTL, most of the German states are gonna be more worried about getting their own house in order than trying to keep a king on his throne that his subjects or his Parliaments hates his guts).
 
What about a daughter of the House of Orange-Nassau?
Only if he wants a war with Spain right off the bat; the 80-Years War may be in truce at the time, but it's not fully settled.

Early intervention in the 30-Years War would probably be popular with Parliament at first. On the other hand, a successful intervention (difficult as that may be to imagine, given the general uselessness of the English army in basically every continental war they fought in this period) might keep the war from lasting as long and being as devastating. One reason it lasted so long OTL was that the initial Catholic victory was so lopsided, that the Protestants had nothing to lose by continuing to fight (and the Imperialists acted to antagonize those Protestants who had initially stayed neutral). If it's more even, an earlier peace might be possible.

Of course, a military defeat could be destabilizing. And if the English intervene in Germany, the Spanish seem likely to return the favor by stirring up trouble in Ireland, which was a powderkeg OTL anyway.
 
As to possible wives, his aunt, the Danish queen, had her heart set on a match with her Brandenburger niece who later became the mother of Queen Christina

Where is that mentioned? Anne Catherine of Brandenburg is said to have had much political influence.

If Henry accompanies his sister to the Palatinate, I could see him ending up marrying Frederick's sister, Elizabeth Charlotte, but if Frederick is still chosen for the Bohemian throne, I could possibly see a Brandenburg match to gain a potential northern ally.
 
Where is that mentioned? Anne Catherine of Brandenburg is said to have had much political influence.

If Henry accompanies his sister to the Palatinate, I could see him ending up marrying Frederick's sister, Elizabeth Charlotte, but if Frederick is still chosen for the Bohemian throne, I could possibly see a Brandenburg match to gain a potential northern ally.

Wonder how an English queen Kristina's possible lesbianism would be handled? And how an Anglo-Bohemian-Palatinate-Brandenburger-Danish alliance might tip the balance in a alt-30YW
 

Zagan

Donor
In my TL, Henry Frederick lived on to become King of Britannia and married exactly Henriette Marie! The TL is not about Britain, but they are mentioned several times.
 
Where is that mentioned? Anne Catherine of Brandenburg is said to have had much political influence.

If Henry accompanies his sister to the Palatinate, I could see him ending up marrying Frederick's sister, Elizabeth Charlotte, but if Frederick is still chosen for the Bohemian throne, I could possibly see a Brandenburg match to gain a potential northern ally.

AFAIK, I saw it on the wiki of Charles I some time ago, that there was a match with Brandenburg considered. But before deriding the idea as one of wiki's fantasies, I have also read it (hard copy) that this was part of the reason that Maria Eleonore's relatives were so against her marrying Gustaf Adolf, was because of the hope that she could land the Prince of Wales/king of England.
 
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