WI: Henri de Chambourd had a different Wife and many Sons?

I had the Idea that in order for the French Monarchy to survive to the 21st Century, the thing that is of the utmost importance is to get rid of the division between the Orleanists and the Legitimists inside the monarchist camp. Now, In orther to do that, i thought that the best possible way for this to happen is to create a ATL in which Henri de Chambourd is married to a different wife, and this marriage produces more than 1 offspring (for example let say 3 sons and 2 daughters). now the problem was that in OTL Henry married a woman he didn't liked in an arranged marriage, and in order to create the perfect candidate that will unite the orleanists and the legitimists, i needed to replace the OTL wife, with another one. and so this is what I did:

I chose the third daughter of King Charles Albert of Sardinia, born in 1826 (in OTL she died in infancy a year later), Princess Maria Cristina of Savoy. I chose her because apart from the right age (six years his younger) and religion (catholic), she is also the perfect conduit to connect the French Royal Family with modern ideas of Constitutional Monarchy (as her father did by creating the Albertine Statutes) and Liberal Nationalism (as people associatied with Savoy believed in this idea, like Count Di Cavour), so choosing her was the ideal way in creating a son of Henri de Chambourd who is a supporter and defender of Constitutional Monarchy in France.

Now, let's say that Henri de Chambourd marries Maria Cristina in 1846; He is 26 y/o and she's 19. And so, that is the right age to get down to business and start making those babies.

Jumping on to 1873, After Napoleon's III defeat, MacMahon is the President, the Duc de Broglie is Prime Minster, and the National Assembly has a majority for the Monarchists, and this where things get Interesting:
Both Macmahon and Broglie know that the Stubborn Pretender (Henri) will never accept the crown with the Tricolour at its side, BUT, his eldest son of 26 years of age, Prince Jean Charles, Duke of Normandy, is much more pragmatic than his father and he can serve better as King than his old man, plus, since the prince is known to be educated in Italy, his Liberal upbringing while still the future heir to be the head of the senior branch in the Bourbon Dynasty can serve to unite the two monarchist parties under one man. And So in 1875, Prince Jean-Charles becomes King of France and in light of his "Unnatural" rise to the throne, through a vote in parliament and not by succeeding his father, he chooses to be known as Jean-Charles the 1st, and not as Charles XI as some expected.


So... any thoughts, comments, remarks? they are more than welcome!
 
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Okay, well first up: Maria Teresa of Modena suffered from a gynaecological problem which made it difficult/impossible to have children.
2) Chambord's match was arranged by Madame Royal, the duchesse d'Angoulême. Thus, Savoy-Carignano's not gonna cut it if she's organizing it, since the Habsburg-Estes were one of the few monarchies which HADN'T acknowledged the July Monarchy. Previous candidates like Elizabeth Mikhailovna of Russia and Carolina of Naples (OTL duchesse d'Aumale) were either blocked by Madame Royal or it was decided that the duc d'Aumale was a better match.
Thus, for a different comtesse de Chambord, you need to kill Madame Royal off earlier (she was the one who insisted on giving him the Jesuit dominated education, too, that so horrified his estranged mother who had wanted him to have a modern education).
 
I thought the monarchists, whilst they had a majority, were split between Legitimists and Orleanists? And they were only willing to work together to restore the monarchy because Chambord was childless and the House of Orleans would be his heirs?

If that's the case, it's possible that in the 1870s you don't have a majority of the National Assembly willing to put Jean on the throne- you have, say, 30% supporting Jean, 30% supporting Philippe Count of Paris, and 40% who are some shade of Republican (those percentages are completely made up), in which case neither royal candidate will get the throne. And the Legitimist bloc might also be split in two between those willing to skip Henri and those not willing.

If Jean is one of three sons, and the House of Orleans have little prospect of inheriting, why would the Orleanists be willing to support a restoration of the mainline Bourbons?
 
I thought the monarchists, whilst they had a majority, were split between Legitimists and Orleanists? And they were only willing to work together to restore the monarchy because Chambord was childless and the House of Orleans would be his heirs?

If that's the case, it's possible that in the 1870s you don't have a majority of the National Assembly willing to put Jean on the throne- you have, say, 30% supporting Jean, 30% supporting Philippe Count of Paris, and 40% who are some shade of Republican (those percentages are completely made up), in which case neither royal candidate will get the throne. And the Legitimist bloc might also be split in two between those willing to skip Henri and those not willing.

If Jean is one of three sons, and the House of Orleans have little prospect of inheriting, why would the Orleanists be willing to support a restoration of the mainline Bourbons?

Because, the ATL Jean-Charles is known to be educated in Italy and has a very Liberal & Parliamentarian worldview... and Plus, giving him the throne would create a fusion between the legitimist claim that only the most senior agnatic bourbon heir can claim the throne, with the orleanist claim that only a claimant who supports the Democratic form of government has lawful claim to the throne, or to put short and simple, an orleanist point of view in the body of a legitimist claimant!
 
Okay, well first up: Maria Teresa of Modena suffered from a gynaecological problem which made it difficult/impossible to have children.
2) Chambord's match was arranged by Madame Royal, the duchesse d'Angoulême. Thus, Savoy-Carignano's not gonna cut it if she's organizing it, since the Habsburg-Estes were one of the few monarchies which HADN'T acknowledged the July Monarchy. Previous candidates like Elizabeth Mikhailovna of Russia and Carolina of Naples (OTL duchesse d'Aumale) were either blocked by Madame Royal or it was decided that the duc d'Aumale was a better match.
Thus, for a different comtesse de Chambord, you need to kill Madame Royal off earlier (she was the one who insisted on giving him the Jesuit dominated education, too, that so horrified his estranged mother who had wanted him to have a modern education).

I agree with you that Princess Marie-Caroline was quite overbearing as a mother, which is why I think it is Imperative for the creation of the TL that Marie Caroline was forced to settle on living in Turin as her home in exile because only the House of Savoy was willing to finance her high standard of living. and remember that in OTL she left Edinburgh to Austria-Hungary because she thought that the accommodations that were given to her by Queen Victoria weren't suitable for a Royal Princess of her status.
 
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I agree with you that Princess Marie-Caroline was quite overbearing as a mother, which is why I think it is Imperative for the creation of the TL that Marie Caroline was forced to settle on living in Turin as her home in exile because only the House of Savoy was willing to finance her high standard of living. and remember that in OTL she left Edinburgh to Austria-Hungary because she thought that the accommodations that were given to her by Queen Victoria weren't suitable for a Royal Princess of her status.

Overbearing is not really the word that springs to mind. After her scandalous remarriage to Count Lucchesi-Palli, her two kids were handed over heart and soul to Madame Royal to be raised. The duchesse de Berri was banned from seeing her children, and the one occasion she was allowed to see them, they refused to meet with her.

Never heard about her having a problem with her Edinburgh lodgings though, although AFAIK, the duchesse de Berri left Edinburgh for France to try and raise an uprising in her son's favour, where she was discovered to be pregnant and the ensuing scandal. She herself was never resident at Hradschin Palace in Prague or at Frohsdorf in Austria, to my knowledge.
 
Overbearing is not really the word that springs to mind. After her scandalous remarriage to Count Lucchesi-Palli, her two kids were handed over heart and soul to Madame Royal to be raised. The duchesse de Berri was banned from seeing her children, and the one occasion she was allowed to see them, they refused to meet with her.

Never heard about her having a problem with her Edinburgh lodgings though, although AFAIK, the duchesse de Berri left Edinburgh for France to try and raise an uprising in her son's favour, where she was discovered to be pregnant and the ensuing scandal. She herself was never resident at Hradschin Palace in Prague or at Frohsdorf in Austria, to my knowledge.
Well for me, overbearing is anyone who allows her/himsel to interfere so bluntly in the choice of wife like Princess Marie-Caroline did....

And as for the reason she left Edinburgh, the wikipedia article on her states (according to this book) that her housing in Regent Terrace wasn't for her liking.
 
As the (admittedly self-declared) expert on the late Bourbons I gotta jump in here. First off, a Bourbon-Savoyard marriage doesn't equal a liberal heir. Carlo Alberto didn't agree to a constitution until 1848, the year of revolutions. None of his policies before then really scream liberalism, more moderate conservatism, though that's still better than the reactionary Jesuit education Chambord received OTL. Nor does it mean that Chambord's going to live in Italy: the French royal family had already settled in Frohsdorf and had no real reason to move to Turin. This is especially true once Sardinia cozies up to Napoleon III. Second, the Orléanists aren't going to back the elder branch if an Orléans succession isn't in the cards. Third, if this Jean-Charles tries to bypass his father in such a blatant way then he'll likely cause more damage, as the Legitimists are going to side with the Head of the Royal House, not his upstart heir. That means further Parliamentary chaos and further splits in the monarchist majority. Your basically aiming for a liberal monarchy in the Orléanist frame but led by the Bourbons. It would be easier and much more realistic to merely kill Chambord in 1868/69, leaving the the Comte de Paris as the undisputed heir once the Second Empire falls.

Now if your really aiming for a lasting Bourbon monarchy I had actually started a scenario that deals with it. First off, you need to keep the Duchess de Berri from disgracing herself; either she doesn't get knocked up or has the kid secretly before going off to her attempted French rising. What people don't realize is how much influence Madame de Berri wielded in 1830-32. Marie Caroline was the head of a Legimist faction that considered the abdications of the King and Dauphin valid, making her son the rightful King and opposed to the passivity of the rest of the Court-in-exile, wanting to oppose the July Monarchy in any way possible. She was also a moderate conservative and opposed to the education her son was receiving under Madame Royale and the Duc de Blacas, the Bourbon Minister in exile.

My idea was to have Madame de Berri not be pregnant when arrested, then successfully escape her prison in Bordeaux to Spain, where her sister Maria Christina was Queen. There she gains the support of the King and Queen in getting control of her children and their education, which combines with the backing of the Legitimists still in France (perhaps they threaten to cut off financial assistance to the Court). In Prague this political backing translates into power and she's able to force the issue, regaining control of her children. Chambord's education is entrusted to the moderate Vicomte de Chateaubriand (something she wanted OTL), whose able to prepare Chambord to be a 19th century sovereign, not an 18th century one like Madame Royale was doing. This right here allows you to not only get a moderate Henri V but also removes his tendency to passivity (ie basically awaiting France to beg him to come back). This sets the stage for an early restoration in 1848/49 instead of 1871/73.
 
As the (admittedly self-declared) expert on the late Bourbons I gotta jump in here. First off, a Bourbon-Savoyard marriage doesn't equal a liberal heir. Carlo Alberto didn't agree to a constitution until 1848, the year of revolutions. None of his policies before then really scream liberalism, more moderate conservatism, though that's still better than the reactionary Jesuit education Chambord received OTL. Nor does it mean that Chambord's going to live in Italy: the French royal family had already settled in Frohsdorf and had no real reason to move to Turin. This is especially true once Sardinia cozies up to Napoleon III. Second, the Orléanists aren't going to back the elder branch if an Orléans succession isn't in the cards. Third, if this Jean-Charles tries to bypass his father in such a blatant way then he'll likely cause more damage, as the Legitimists are going to side with the Head of the Royal House, not his upstart heir. That means further Parliamentary chaos and further splits in the monarchist majority. Your basically aiming for a liberal monarchy in the Orléanist frame but led by the Bourbons. It would be easier and much more realistic to merely kill Chambord in 1868/69, leaving the the Comte de Paris as the undisputed heir once the Second Empire falls.

Now if your really aiming for a lasting Bourbon monarchy I had actually started a scenario that deals with it. First off, you need to keep the Duchess de Berri from disgracing herself; either she doesn't get knocked up or has the kid secretly before going off to her attempted French rising. What people don't realize is how much influence Madame de Berri wielded in 1830-32. Marie Caroline was the head of a Legimist faction that considered the abdications of the King and Dauphin valid, making her son the rightful King and opposed to the passivity of the rest of the Court-in-exile, wanting to oppose the July Monarchy in any way possible. She was also a moderate conservative and opposed to the education her son was receiving under Madame Royale and the Duc de Blacas, the Bourbon Minister in exile.

My idea was to have Madame de Berri not be pregnant when arrested, then successfully escape her prison in Bordeaux to Spain, where her sister Maria Christina was Queen. There she gains the support of the King and Queen in getting control of her children and their education, which combines with the backing of the Legitimists still in France (perhaps they threaten to cut off financial assistance to the Court). In Prague this political backing translates into power and she's able to force the issue, regaining control of her children. Chambord's education is entrusted to the moderate Vicomte de Chateaubriand (something she wanted OTL), whose able to prepare Chambord to be a 19th century sovereign, not an 18th century one like Madame Royale was doing. This right here allows you to not only get a moderate Henri V but also removes his tendency to passivity (ie basically awaiting France to beg him to come back). This sets the stage for an early restoration in 1848/49 instead of 1871/73.
I Like That!!! Have you published any TL on this subject?
 
I Like That!!! Have you published any TL on this subject?

Sort of. My first TL, Reign of the Miracle King, had Chambord succeed to the throne as Henri V in 1830 but I bit off more than I could chew with it and it fizzled out. Right now I'm writing a Thirty years' war TL but I do have some of my notes (the rest are in my laptop that's in the shop) on both ideas.
 
Sort of. My first TL, Reign of the Miracle King, had Chambord succeed to the throne as Henri V in 1830 but I bit off more than I could chew with it and it fizzled out. Right now I'm writing a Thirty years' war TL but I do have some of my notes (the rest are in my laptop that's in the shop) on both ideas.
Well... i'm looking forward for it, so Good Luck!
 
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