WI: Heinrich Held and Rupert of Wittelsbach openly defy Hitler (1933)

Taken while reading an article from this site about the Jacobites, whose inheritance was later taken by the Bavarian Wittelsbachs...
By 1932 the Nazis had the support of almost half the German electorate. There was every reason to believe that if Hitler were named German chancellor (prime minister) the next step would be for the Nazis to establish a permanent dictatorship. The state government in Bavaria feared that the the federal German government would dismiss the elected government of Bavaria (as actually happened in Prussia in July 1932). In May 1932 the Bavarian Minister-President (premier) Heinrich Held met with Rupert's chief political advisor Baron Erwein von Aretin. Held wanted Aretin to prepare for a monarchist restoration in Bavaria, but was unwilling to have his government publicly endorse the plan.

In January 1933 Held and the Bavarian government began to consider the idea of naming Rupert as General State Commissioner. This temporary office was intended to be used in times of crisis; it gave the holder extraordinary powers to restore law and order. Such an appointment would have been a clear sign of resistance to Hitler who was appointed German chancellor on January 30. At a meeting in the Leuchtenberg Palace on February 21 Held intended to announce Rupert's appointment - but at the last minute he wavered, and no announcment was made.
So, what if Held and von Aretin had been more bold about their defiance to Hitler and support for a restoration of the Bavarian monarchy?
Could they pull off a secession? Would Hitler send in the Heer, or would he be too unwilling to do that?
 
Secessionists weren't that popular in the Weimar Republic. When the French tried it in the Rhineland, all German parties protested - even the Communists.

Still, a nice idea. But even if they succeed, I suspect Hitler'll try to pull a Dollfuß on him.
 
Secessionists weren't that popular in the Weimar Republic. When the French tried it in the Rhineland, all German parties protested - even the Communists.

Still, a nice idea. But even if they succeed, I suspect Hitler'll try to pull a Dollfuß on him.
While it is certainly true that Hitler would be pissed off by such action on part of the Bavarians, i'm not sure he'd be willing to show himself as so hostile towards a German monarch, and one he had supported prior to the 1923 putsch.
Moreover, if things do get so ugly that Hitler invades Bavaria, i could see the Bavarians not endearing themselves too much to the new nazi regime. There's also the risk of diplomatic intervention.
 

BigBlueBox

Banned
While it is certainly true that Hitler would be pissed off by such action on part of the Bavarians, i'm not sure he'd be willing to show himself as so hostile towards a German monarch, and one he had supported prior to the 1923 putsch.
Moreover, if things do get so ugly that Hitler invades Bavaria, i could see the Bavarians not endearing themselves too much to the new nazi regime. There's also the risk of diplomatic intervention.
Nope, this will be considered an internal German affair. If the other powers of Europe didn’t react to the Anschluss then they won’t react to this either. Dolfuss might accept Bavarian refugees and crack down on Austrian Nazis though.
 
Even if there's no outright intervention, the potential long-term butterflies are big. Even assuming history predeces mostly similar to OTL, then chances are in 1945 we might see a Austria and Bavaria both leaving Germany for good. Perhaps merging with each other, but never rejoining Germany. Which would change Cold War dynamics if they get the same neutrality deal. Or change them in a different way if A-B is part of NATO.
 
Nope, this will be considered an internal German affair.
Germany is still considered a threat by Britain and France, but neither have the political will to get involved militarily.
Wouldn't egging on a German civil war be a smart move to remove the threat while not risking themselves?
 
Let's say Dolf plays it smart and doesn't react violently.
In turn, Bavaria doesn't declare independence, but then its institutions are slowly emptied of power and the Land is realigned with the rest of Germany.
Perhaps Rupert is even coopted into the nazi power structure so to gain further legitimacy.

What happens after the war with such a taint?
 
After the War Rupprecht tried to advocate a return to Monarchy and in September 1954 70 of 170 members of Bavarian Parlament declared to be monarchists. So I can imagine Rupprecht opposing to Hitler and escaping before in Austria and after in United Kingdom. In Bavaria he is idolized as an anti-Nazi hero and associated with White Rose. After the end of the war he is the clean new face of a post-Nazi Bavaria: Monarchy is restored by referendum and Bavaria is separated from Germany, that is going to disintegrate with some help from France, Churchill, Stalin and some members of US Goverment.
 
After the War Rupprecht tried to advocate a return to Monarchy and in September 1954 70 of 170 members of Bavarian Parlament declared to be monarchists. So I can imagine Rupprecht opposing to Hitler and escaping before in Austria and after in United Kingdom. In Bavaria he is idolized as an anti-Nazi hero and associated with White Rose. After the end of the war he is the clean new face of a post-Nazi Bavaria: Monarchy is restored by referendum and Bavaria is separated from Germany, that is going to disintegrate with some help from France, Churchill, Stalin and some members of US Goverment.

If Germany is to be divided in three, does it mean the Soviet part is larger or everything remains as OTL?
 
I can't help but wonder how consistantly the idea keeps comming up that there is any inclination or willingness on part of the bavarians to merge with Austria.
Thrust me, we'd rather chew of a leg unasthenisized.
 
I can't help but wonder how consistantly the idea keeps comming up that there is any inclination or willingness on part of the bavarians to merge with Austria.
Thrust me, we'd rather chew of a leg unasthenisized.
We call it Alternate History for a reason. In OTL 20th or 21st century? No way indeed.
In a world where Bavaria tried to defy Hitler and was brutally suppressed? Well chances are the Bavarians still wouldn't like the idea I agree.
Expect when the Bavarians from TTL are being faced with the choice of: "You want to rejoin the Prussians or join the Austrians?" Because compared to option one of this question, they'd probably prefer to chew off an arm and a leg unanaesthetized.
 
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