WI Heathen Normandy

WI Rollo the count of Rouen continues to practice in association with the new Norse aristocracy their native ways in secret and somehow ensuring that this is carried on through the generations after them with the outside world seeing them as basically good old French Catholics. While I will admit this would be a bit on the ASB side but for the sake of argument this hidden dynamic remains unknown for as long as they (as in those within the dynamic) remain.
 
WI Rollo the count of Rouen continues to practice in association with the new Norse aristocracy their native ways in secret and somehow ensuring that this is carried on through the generations after them with the outside world seeing them as basically good old French Catholics. While I will admit this would be a bit on the ASB side but for the sake of argument this hidden dynamic remains unknown for as long as they (as in those within the dynamic) remain.

Practicing the worship of the Aesir in secret past a single generation is probably ASB, since it would depend on having the aristocracy take their children's education out of the hands of the church en mass, which would raise huge alarm bells. Keeping their position with their fate out in the open is probably more likely, despite how crazy that would be, simply because it can then be protected by force of arms
 
That's why I did say "a bit on the ASB side..." in my o.p. @FillyofDelphi
Though to limit the level of Papal suspicion it could be only a father to heir sort of thing possibly being seem as a rather harmless tradition though Rome has been known to be a bit over the top. As I know nothing about education of the gentry during that (and most periods to be frank) maybe the secrets could be entrusted more to their daughters as the church seems to be worried about raising strong catholic men and all that.
 
That's why I did say "a bit on the ASB side..." in my o.p. @FillyofDelphi
Though to limit the level of Papal suspicion it could be only a father to heir sort of thing possibly being seem as a rather harmless tradition though Rome has been known to be a bit over the top. As I know nothing about education of the gentry during that (and most periods to be frank) maybe the secrets could be entrusted more to their daughters as the church seems to be worried about raising strong catholic men and all that.

As a rule, the Church was pretty much the only organization that could provide a quality education during the 10th century, and as a noble you'd be expected to have your sons tutored. As for the father to heir training, that'd be pretty hard with all the responsibilities of managing a realm (plus, the Normans had to be quality warriors as well which is a time consuming process; after all, the purpose of giving them Normandy was so they would defend Ile-de-France and the core of West Francia's river system from OTHER viking raiders), so baring a rather unique set of circumstances you're either going to have Catholic sons, or ones who have some kind of syncratic faith which will have the lid blown off of it at some point. As for entrusting it to their daughters, CULTURALLY that would make sense between the two given the (relative) degree of independence and more equitable (not EQUAL, per say; you still had women's and men's work, but in terms of levels of respect and authority) social expectations of the genders... for the fathers. Since their sons are being raised with and expected to act along more traditional Christian morals, however, they'll not take too kindly to their sisters being so uppity. If for no other reason than it "ruins" them for potential husbands of a similar rank from the rest of Frankish high society.

Fundimentally, you need the Normans to be in contact with their "roots" in the broader Norse culture for them to stave off assimilation. Given they aren't likely to get it domestically from either their subjects or social peers in the Frankish nobility... perhaps greater survivability of Pagan Norse nobility and traders in other realms who could provide them with religious companionship? Have Norse York, Dublin, Norway, ect. become big trading powers in the North Sea, with the Norman cultural uniqueness more tolerated by the French as it gives them a role as "gatekeeper" between the Pagan Norse and Catholic Continental worlds in a way that's socially tolerable to them both, in a manner similar to the Italian traders in the Middle East existing on the edge of the broader European Feudal system?
 
Hereditary secrets may make for good stories but long-term they tend to come up against premature death and family feuds if held by few individuals or exposure if held by several.
 

PhilippeO

Banned
Human belief and tradition needs 'activity' to continue. In India, many festivals and pilgrimage sustain Hinduism. In Protestant states, banning public mass is often enough to cause conversion or resistance. Even 'secret' society needs meeting, ceremony and ritual. Chinese house church make great effort to have mass and meeting at their house.

If Normans 'outwardly' accept Catholicism, then in several decades they would be True Catholic regardless of their original intention when converting. Its one thing to hide activity from authority, but having secret belief without practicing it is not sustainable.

And having your entire upper class doing pagan ceremony while they live among christian peasant, with priest and bishops live in their castle, and they themselves receive christian education is difficult.
 
But I believe them converting to Christianity either right before or during the occupation of the northwest third of France somewhat muted resistance to the Norse occupation via the local inhabitants- to say nothing of defanging surrounding territories from being tempted to engage in a holy war to rid the land of infidels! Let's not forget that a century later, Duke William's invasion of England got the green light from the Roman Church for ostensibly returning the English to the 'true' faith despite them having been long since been Christian!
 
Great point @Londinium I suppose the such an esoteric practice could remain would be more of a question of for how long can these Norse descendants stay relatively Norse outside of the public eye. Certainly when it comes to the Saxon slayer in question, being a bastard he would absolutely be outside of any such removed society assuming he is still made Duc. It is safe to say any major Norseness would be killed off by then. So more or less as otl but a bit more interesting.

Possibly seeing that everything has gone up the creek, the association records and hides there knowledge in hope that when they are reborn at least one of them will find it and help to bring back such ways.
 
But I believe them converting to Christianity either right before or during the occupation of the northwest third of France somewhat muted resistance to the Norse occupation via the local inhabitants- to say nothing of defanging surrounding territories from being tempted to engage in a holy war to rid the land of infidels! Let's not forget that a century later, Duke William's invasion of England got the green light from the Roman Church for ostensibly returning the English to the 'true' faith despite them having been long since been Christian!

The former, certainly, but do remember why France gave the land to the Normans in the first place: namely, that the surrounding Christian territories COULDEN'T muster the military forces to protect their lands from Norse raiders. By granting Normandy to the group of said raiders currently occupying the area, they were meant to stop other Vikings from mucking things up
 
Top