WI: Hannibal invades Rome...A second time...

So yeah, I'm kinda bombarding you guys with Hannibal pods. Anyway, while in Antiochus's Seleucid court, Hannibal pressed Antiochus to five him the necessary troops and supplies to invade Italy when war came. He stressed the only way to beat Rome was on Italian soil, and pointed out that he would make a great distraction to the Romans while Antiochus invades Greece, maybe forcing the Romans to cave in to a favorable peace to Antiochus.


Antiochus considered it and seemed to go along with it, but decided against it in the end. What would have happened if Antiochus agreed to the plan and Hannibal landed in Italy again with a Seleucid army whole Antiochus invaded Greece?
 
So yeah, I'm kinda bombarding you guys with Hannibal pods. Anyway, while in Antiochus's Seleucid court, Hannibal pressed Antiochus to five him the necessary troops and supplies to invade Italy when war came. He stressed the only way to beat Rome was on Italian soil, and pointed out that he would make a great distraction to the Romans while Antiochus invades Greece, maybe forcing the Romans to cave in to a favorable peace to Antiochus.


Antiochus considered it and seemed to go along with it, but decided against it in the end. What would have happened if Antiochus agreed to the plan and Hannibal landed in Italy again with a Seleucid army whole Antiochus invaded Greece?

I think this is a better position strategically than the Carthage vs. Rome setup, provided Antiochus wants to fight for real...which isn't something the Seleucids or the Ptolemies were particularly good at.
 
I think this is a better position strategically than the Carthage vs. Rome setup, provided Antiochus wants to fight for real...which isn't something the Seleucids or the Ptolemies were particularly good at.

I could see Antiochus committing himself to it.
 
Carthaginian assassins rain down on Hannibal until they block out the sun for fear of reprisal.

Pretty sure the top guys in Carthage would take a pretty dim view of this and between the second and third punic wars there were continual calls for the whole place to be invaded and raised. Soon after the second war Carthage had bounced back hard enough to be paying off the war debt with no problem and this was making Rome look bad and fear a resurgence. This would be the perfect and justified opportunity.

Scipio! I choose you!
 
Also, he never invaded Rome a first time :) He just messed about in the country side tricking Roman generals into traps time and again.
 
Carthaginian assassins rain down on Hannibal until they block out the sun for fear of reprisal.

Pretty sure the top guys in Carthage would take a pretty dim view of this and between the second and third punic wars there were continual calls for the whole place to be invaded and raised. Soon after the second war Carthage had bounced back hard enough to be paying off the war debt with no problem and this was making Rome look bad and fear a resurgence. This would be the perfect and justified opportunity.

Scipio! I choose you!

Rome was looking for an opportunity to crush Carthage anyway, their reason for the Third Punic war wasn't what one would call compelling.

Carthage might actually just go with it seeing no way out of the hopeless situation that Rome has placed them in, and the Romans won't be able to commit everything they have to destroy Carthage like they could OTL which might be a hope spot for Carthage.

Now as to how well Hannibal does in this speculative war, well that's up for debate.
 
Rome was looking for an opportunity to crush Carthage anyway, their reason for the Third Punic war wasn't what one would call compelling.

Well yea. It'd just come sooner. Rome was ready.

Carthage might actually just go with it seeing no way out of the hopeless situation that Rome has placed them in, and the Romans won't be able to commit everything they have to destroy Carthage like they could OTL which might be a hope spot for Carthage.

Doubt it. They were actually reliant on Rome for some degree of protection apparently as when Numidians started stealing farmland it was supposed to be guaranteed land by Rome by the terms of the end of the second punic war. The best they could hope for would probably be a status quo and it'd be madness for them to try and get into a fight on purpose. Weren't they basically defenseless at this point? Didn't the third punic war start because they put together (a crappy, makeshift) army?

Now as to how well Hannibal does in this speculative war, well that's up for debate.
Poorly probably :)
 
Well yea. It'd just come sooner. Rome was ready.

Depends on what you mean by ready. They could certainly have attacked what Carthage degenerated into with ease, taking on both would be rather more difficult.

Doubt it. They were actually reliant on Rome for some degree of protection apparently as when some people from the South started stealing farmland it was supposed to be guaranteed land by Rome by the terms of the end of the second punic war. The best they could hope for would probably be a status quo and it'd be madness for them to try and get into a fight on purpose. Weren't they basically defenseless at this point? Didn't the third punic war start because they put together (a crappy, makeshift) army?

It started because the Romans had enforced a harsh treaty on Carthage that declared the Carthaginians had to ask Roman permission to go to war, and take all border disputes before the Roman senate. So when they started having trouble with Rome's ally Numidia raiding them they had to ask the Romans to do something about it, the Romans told them to go pound sand so Carthage decided to do something about it which the Romans declared in violation of the treaty and attacked.

Carthage could still fend for itself in a fight fairly well and didn't need Rome for protection. The fact was Rome wanted an end to Carthaginian sovereignty plain and simple. They basically forced Carthage into a destructive final conflict which got them curbstomped after a three year siege.
 
Yea, that's what I was getting at. Not protection per say, but they weren't to have their own army and Rome was to settle disputes for them. Like you said it was a flimsy justification and they would probably have done it sooner if given the chance, if only to shut Cato up.

They might not have struggled to fight on two fronts as they'd basically been fighting constantly all over the place at the same time for hundred of years by this point.
 
Rome wasn't clamoring to destroy Carthage...yet. They were more or less content with Carthage supplying them with grain for their campaigns as well as ships. Really, it wasn't until Cato started banging the drums of war with Carthage at the end of every speech that Rome finally turned its attention to vanquishing its old foe. And even then it wasn't until Carthage raised an army that they chose to do so.
 
Rome wasn't clamoring to destroy Carthage...yet. They were more or less content with Carthage supplying them with grain for their campaigns as well as ships. Really, it wasn't until Cato started banging the drums of war with Carthage at the end of every speech that Rome finally turned its attention to vanquishing its old foe. And even then it wasn't until Carthage raised an army that they chose to do so.

Was it not a rubbish army that just lost to the Numidians though? It wasn't a threat it was a violation of the agreement, they jumped on it as an excuse.
 
Was it not a rubbish army that just lost to the Numidians though? It wasn't a threat it was a violation of the agreement, they jumped on it as an excuse.

Yes, but it gave them an excuse-they broke the treaty and that was enough. The Romans always tried to portray themselves as everything but the aggressors. If Carthage never breaks the treaty then the most Rome would do is demand more tribute.
 
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