WI: Hamiton and Burr both live

Let us say that in the infamous duel of 1804, Burr and Hamilton both miss. In OTL, only Hamilton missed, and in some ATLs (not remembering the titles or authors, sorry), Hamilton hit and Burr missed, but I don't think I've seen one where the duel still happened, but both missed (not sure I've seen one where they both died, either).

Would they have the sense to not have a second go at it?

How might their careers progress from that point?

As an alternate, much less probable scenario, each hits the other in the gun arm, and they suspect divine providence is trying to tell them something.
 
By 1804 that bit had been amended.

Doesn't keep Hamilton and Burr from joining forces. They were off and on friends and enemies, Hamilton went too far with insulting Burr's character. Neither truly intended to kill the other, Hamilton shot a branch just above Burr's head and Burr aimed just off of Hamilton's hip (which is where gentlemen fired when they wished to not kill their opponent at that time). If both had missed and they had stayed and talked at Weehawken, we could have the most interesting scenario for a political alliance in American history.
 
I've got other things to work on, but if someone does a TL, I hope they'll post a link to this thread.

If you go with the unlikely-but-possible idea in the OP that each is hit in the gun arm (whether by a bullet, or by some shrapnel from another object that was hit), might they start a movement to have duelling more thoroughly outlawed, and also rendered unfashionable (which at that time would have a stronger effect than laws)?
 
I'm British, so my knowledge on this era is sketchy at best. But I find the history of the early United States fascinating. What were the major political groups at this point in time?
 
I'm British, so my knowledge on this era is sketchy at best. But I find the history of the early United States fascinating. What were the major political groups at this point in time?

Hamiltonian Federalists vs. Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans
Pro-British, big government, industrialization and aristocracy vs. Pro-French l, small government and agrarianism. Very odd mix by today's standards.
Burr was a Jeffersonian but Hamilton hated him even more than Jefferson, who also hated Burr.
 
Hamiltonian Federalists vs. Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans
Pro-British, big government, industrialization and aristocracy vs. Pro-French l, small government and agrarianism. Very odd mix by today's standards.
Burr was a Jeffersonian but Hamilton hated him even more than Jefferson, who also hated Burr.

What were their attitudes to expansion of the US?
 
What were their attitudes to expansion of the US?

Expansion isn't mentioned in the Constitution, so Jefferson was actually the least likely to accept th Lousiana Purchase. OTOH the Federalists were more in favor of developing the current US while the DRs wanted more farmland. The DRs were also the war hawks in the war of 1812 because they were anti-British. So the DRs slightly, but I think the Federalists would've taken a chance they got to expand national prestige and strength.
 
Hamiltonian Federalists vs. Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans
Pro-British, big government, industrialization and aristocracy vs. Pro-French l, small government and agrarianism. Very odd mix by today's standards.

You're forgetting a somewhat more important division between the Hamiltonians and the Jeffersonians, which came to be really important later on when the Whigs becomes the heirs of the Federalists and the Jacksonian Democrats the heirs to the Jeffersonian Democratic-Republicans. The issue is trade.

The Hamiltonians were generally protectionists (though I'm unsure if mercantilist would be the appropriate label), whereas the Jeffersonians generally embraced free trade. Considering how important trade was to many states, how certain states agitated for tariffs on certain goods and so on, you may wanna take that into account.

I have to admit I'm not too certain of this, but if Hamilton manages to re-assume a firm leadership of the Federalist Party, there may be some voices in Congress arguing (and perhaps they are successful) in amending the US Constitution so that Hamilton may run for president (Hamilton was born in the West Indies), and then, who knows, he may even get the job.

With the risk of stirring up undesired debate on the issue of the Founding Fathers and their religion, Hamilton appears to have differed from Jefferson and Madison in the view of the Constitution and its relation to the Christian religion. As omniscient Wikipedia informs us:

"In 1802, he [Hamilton] began to organize "The Christian Constitutional Society", the first principle of which, even before supporting the Constitution, was "the support of the Christian religion"."

Additionally, Hamilton wrote after the constitutional convention:

"For my own part, I sincerely esteem it [the Constitution] a system which without the finger of God, never could have been suggested and agreed upon by such a diversity of interests."

It appears to be the case that Hamilton saw the Constitution as being directly inspired by the Christian religion. Contrast this to Democratic-Republican James Madison (4th President), who expressed the following opinion in a letter to Edward Everett:

"The settled opinion here is, that religion is essentially distinct from civil Government, and exempt from its cognizance; that a connection between them is injurious to both; that there are causes in the human breast which ensure the perpetuity of religion without the aid of the law; that rival sects, with equal rights, exercise mutual censorships in favor of good morals; that if new sects arise with absurd opinions or over-heated imaginations, the proper remedies lie in time, forbearance, and example; that a legal establishment of religion without a toleration could not be thought of, and with a toleration, is no security for and animosity; and, finally, that these opinions are supported by experience, which has shewn that every relaxation of the alliance between law and religion, from the partial example of Holland to the consummation in Pennsylvania, Delaware, New Jersey, &c., has been found as safe in practice as it is sound in theory."

The position of the Constitution being derived from Christianity also appears to contradict Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli:

"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Perhaps Hamilton would seek to firmly establish the position of the United States being a Christian Nation as official policy?
 
Last edited:
I have to admit I'm not too certain of this, but if Hamilton manages to re-assume a firm leadership of the Federalist Party, there may be some voices in Congress arguing (and perhaps they are successful) in amending the US Constitution so that Hamilton may run for president (Hamilton was born in the West Indies), and then, who knows, he may even get the job.

Hamilton could become president without amending the Constitution: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution , shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."
 
Hamilton could become president without amending the Constitution: "No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution , shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

I had missed that crucial sentence. Hamilton has every right to seek and assume the presidency.
 
Why couldn't the Burr-Hamilton-Jefferson rivalry have created a three party system?


Never forget that the American House of Representative was largely inspired by the House of Commons and thus uses a system of First-Past-The-Post. History demonstrates that such a voting system almost inevitably eventually leads to the formation of a two-party system. While Canada can arguably be considered an exception to this rule, it should be noted that its historical third party, the New Democratic Party, enjoyed very little influence up to the election of 2011, and whether or not the Liberal Party of Canada will enjoy any significant influence on federal level henceforth remains to be seen.

It is therefore doubtful that a genuine three party system would survive any longer than 10-20 years before one of the three players is reduced in influence and representation to give way for a two party system.
 
Never forget that the American House of Representative was largely inspired by the House of Commons and thus uses a system of First-Past-The-Post. History demonstrates that such a voting system almost inevitably eventually leads to the formation of a two-party system. While Canada can arguably be considered an exception to this rule, it should be noted that its historical third party, the New Democratic Party, enjoyed very little influence up to the election of 2011, and whether or not the Liberal Party of Canada will enjoy any significant influence on federal level henceforth remains to be seen.

It is therefore doubtful that a genuine three party system would survive any longer than 10-20 years before one of the three players is reduced in influence and representation to give way for a two party system.
That's interesting, considering that Britain has three major parties, and some of the minor parties win seats.
 
That's interesting, considering that Britain has three major parties, and some of the minor parties win seats.

Three major parties, well that kind of depends on your definition of a major party... With the exception of the early 1980s there has never really been a possibility for a party other than Labour or the Conservatives to assume the premiership for over a century. The Liberal Democrats have first been in a position to broker a coalition deal now, and I am quite sure that many dissatisfied Liberal Democrats would argue that the Lib Dems still have virtually no influence over policy (I would personally disagree), but their influence most certainly is limited compared to the Conservatives.

And that is how I would define a three party system: a system where each of the three parties are seen as more or less equally strong contenders for the power.

I am not saying that there will not be smaller parties who win seats, and that there may in fact arise a larger party among the small, or, third ones, but these parties seldom enjoys much influence over policy, and are virtually never seen as serious contenders for power.
 
Top