WI: Gustavus Adolphus dies in 1612

RavenMM

Banned
So, Gustavus Adolphus. Many people on this board adore him for his military mind, and his general success as a king. There have been many threads about him not dying in battle. But what would happens if he died even earlier? In february of 1612, he nearly drowned after the battle of Vittsjö. What would have happened if he died that night?

How would the north look? more danish? How would poland and russia have fared? What would happen to the thirty years war? WOuld there even be the deluge in poland? Are these wars inevitable or can many lives in central and eastern europe be saved?
 
his death would mean a better outcome for the Danes in the Kalmar war...maybe more fortifications demolished and of course, a stable border in Finnmark, perhaps Norway getting some more land in Norrland. Gustav's younger brother Karl Filip would inherit him, thereby butterflying away his marriage to a non-royal and perhaps actually continuing the Vasa line longer than OTL. His death at Riga could be butterflied away, perhaps even that entire war. Karl wouldn't be there at the same time as he actually did, and might be reasonable enough, unlike his brother, to see that people get killed in battles and won't fight in the front rows. (it only makes one appreciate Gustavus even more)
Swedish army wouldn't be so strong but it would still bet caught in wars against Russia and Poland, but maybe now longer wars without Gustav, though I see them kind of victorious as Karl seems to be a capable, decent, humble man and could do well as a King. However, major effects on TYW which would end worse for the Protestants. After, this with Danes defeated in the war he could use the opportunity and take some land from them, but not as much as OTL...and probably no Deluge as OTL as Charles X Gustav would be butterflied away since he was born in 1622
 

Deleted member 1487

I'm not expert, but perhaps that means the Protestants lose and the war ends with the defeat of the Danes in 1629. Maybe the French find someone else to fight in Germany? If there is no continuation of the war the HRE continues on with a stronger Emperor and weakened Protestant princes. Wallenstein has his lands that are going to be increasingly rich and potentially problematic for Ferdinand. Probably the 30 years war is much less destructive and because the 11 year war instead that ends with an increasingly powerful Habsburg led HRE against France.
 
yes, I agree. Austria keeps Lusatia, Wallenstein keeps his newly acquired lands, Elector Palatine remains en exile with his possessions being given to Bavaria and/or other loyal Germans. Stronger Imperial authority and less autonomy for the German princes which could butterfly away Prussia as we know it. Much less freedom for Protestants which could result in a lot of them leaving Germany and going to the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden...probably not England as there were quite some problems real soon. Oh and also they could go to the colonies like New Netherland and New Sweden. Not millions of them, but still..
 

RavenMM

Banned
yes, I agree. Austria keeps Lusatia, Wallenstein keeps his newly acquired lands, Elector Palatine remains en exile with his possessions being given to Bavaria and/or other loyal Germans. Stronger Imperial authority and less autonomy for the German princes which could butterfly away Prussia as we know it. Much less freedom for Protestants which could result in a lot of them leaving Germany and going to the Netherlands, Denmark and Sweden...probably not England as there were quite some problems real soon. Oh and also they could go to the colonies like New Netherland and New Sweden. Not millions of them, but still..
Would there even be seperate netherlands if the swedish did not intervene?
 
well, by the 1630 the Netherlands were still holding their own I'd say, but probably would fall if both Imperial and Spanish army invaded from two directions. However, allying with France (as per OTL) would help and then they're saved. Only they would have a few problematic years in the early 1630s
 
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