WI: Greeks win the Battle of Thermopylae?

Storm of the century (or millenium:eek:) wipes out the Persian fleet, leaving only stranded remnants and Xerxes to face the Spartans?
 
A butterfly flaps his winds in Byzantion, a month earlier, changing the weather patterns, leading to the massive storm. .

ASB, at least for me, is basically everything not due to human intervention : aliens, space, geography, wheater, etc.

If you consider weather change to be ASB, rather than straight alternate history. Lots of WWII ALTs go by "What if its an easy winter in 1939-1940? 1941-42? 1944-45?
They are such for me, unless it involves an earlier more important human-related climatic change. As in more industry make climate change as a consequence.
 
Something to consider: even if the Greek forces do better at Thermopylae and no one discovers the passes, the Persians are still going to outflank them within the week when --almost inevitably-- the Persian fleet either smashes through what's left of Themistocles' fleet after the third day, or finally manages to outflank them by sending another contingent of ships around the island (and presumably not be banged up by storms this time).

Though, if the Persians manage to destroy the Greek fleet at Artemisium because they held out longer, you can pretty much kiss Salamis good-bye. Athens (the people, not just the city) are toast, and the isthmus of Corinth becomes the new front line. ...Er, until the Persian fleet simply sidesteps that as well and lands troops just south of Sparta.

...Hrn. That ended up way worse for the Greeks than I expected.

Outflank the Greek fleet by sailing south along the coast?well the captain who sailed Cavo D'Oro with the contrary wings that dominate the area in August-September then must have been a rare kind of sea-woolf.Even today the coast guard stations and the ministry issue prohibitive bulletins if the winds reach power of nine or higher the Bauford scale-a frequent phenomenon...
 
ASB, at least for me, is basically everything not due to human intervention : aliens, space, geography, wheater, etc.


They are such for me, unless it involves an earlier more important human-related climatic change. As in more industry make climate change as a consequence.

Then you have a very narrow definition of what constitutes AH. Maybe "Alternate History of Human Effected Events" would be your preference?:confused::)
 
Then you have a very narrow definition of what constitutes AH. Maybe "Alternate History of Human Effected Events" would be your preference?:confused::)

History, surprisingly enough, is about human events, not meteorology, astronomy or geology. These can be related to historical matters of course, but are eventually totally different disciplines and sciences, that are used in an historical continuity (as in using climatic change models in order to explain past migrations).

"History of Human Events" is eventually a tautology : you can't have history without human elements (it's why history is usually included in Humanities).

You have a too board meaning of History, using it for sciences that are not such, and therefore a too board meaning of Alternate History, IMHO.
 
ASB, at least for me, is basically everything not due to human intervention : aliens, space, geography, wheater, etc.

Fine: During some training with his spear a month before Thermopylae, a man from Byzantion throws it and it gets stuck in a tree. He forgets to retrieve it, and few days later, this conductor attracts a lightning strike, starting a local fire which is large enough to have a significant impact on weather patterns a month down the line.

Good enough?
 
I don't think a local wildfire would be enough to provoke the "Storm of the century (or millenium)"

It's a possibility-which is all that matters-now can we just move on with the assumption that the Persian fleet is destroyed or severely crippled in some kind of storm or incident and talk about the implications?
 
It's a possibility-which is all that matters-
I'm not a specialist about meterology but I think that is at least really, really, really, really unlikely. If every time someone provoked a storm because he burnt the wild grass, you won't have a mindkind eventually.

now can we just move on with the assumption that the Persian fleet is destroyed or severely crippled in some kind of storm or incident and talk about the implications?
You don't need particularly implausible event to do so.
Just assume that the commander of the Persian-Phoenician fleet is someone else, by exemple having Ariabignes or Achemenes dying during the OTL storm that destroyed 1/3 of this fleet. He seems to have been quite the skilled commander, and his death could have impacted quite importantly in Persian-Phoenician fleet.

You could end with only half of this fleet surviving, and Greeks being able to, if not win at Artemision, at least end with a stalemate.
 
The Persian fleet was damaged in a storm IOTL, IIRC.

It was one of the factors that allowed the Greek fleet to linger and defend the Army's flank.
 
Outflank the Greek fleet by sailing south along the coast?well the captain who sailed Cavo D'Oro with the contrary wings that dominate the area in August-September then must have been a rare kind of sea-woolf.Even today the coast guard stations and the ministry issue prohibitive bulletins if the winds reach power of nine or higher the Bauford scale-a frequent phenomenon...

*shrug* They tried in OTL, it's not too much of a stretch to assume they'd try again, especially with being unfamiliar with the area. And it's not impossible to assume that a second contingent could beat the odds just by being in the right place at the right time.

But even if they don't outflank them, Themistocles is doomed unless he retreats. The straits are too wide and after day three he's suffered too many casualties to hold the gap much longer (and realistically, I don't think Themistocles is going to sacrifice his ace just to buy the land forces another day or two). Xerxes will outflank Leonidas, one way or another. If it's by sea, the question merely becomes one of how badly the Greek fleet will be mauled in the process.
 
*shrug* They tried in OTL, it's not too much of a stretch to assume they'd try again, especially with being unfamiliar with the area. And it's not impossible to assume that a second contingent could beat the odds just by being in the right place at the right time.

But even if they don't outflank them, Themistocles is doomed unless he retreats. The straits are too wide and after day three he's suffered too many casualties to hold the gap much longer (and realistically, I don't think Themistocles is going to sacrifice his ace just to buy the land forces another day or two). Xerxes will outflank Leonidas, one way or another. If it's by sea, the question merely becomes one of how badly the Greek fleet will be mauled in the process.
Read what I wrote carefully please and think practically:the weather in that period will be getting worse every day and the operational period normally closes at the end of September in the Aegean.

The straights of Artemission are not wide;we are not on land ships need space to manoevre,especially when they carry 200 men...the Persian fleet needed double that place to form a battle array;here you imply attrition.The Persians were more likely to crash on the rocky coast of the Afetae where the ships anchored than Themistocles to be mauled there.
 
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