WI: Greater Greece?

How, with a POD no earlier than 1914, could Greece gain the western coast of Anatolia and Eastern Thrace, including Constantinople and keep it until the present day?
 

yourworstnightmare

Banned
Donor
How, with a POD no earlier than 1914, could Greece gain the western coast of Anatolia and Eastern Thrace, including Constantinople and keep it until the present day?
Well, not without some seriously wankage, or support, from say a surviving Russian Empire or something (but they'd want Constaninople for themselves). Otherwise, no, with a 1914 PoD the Greeks could not get that much from the Turks on their own. More of Thrace is possible though.
 
How, with a POD no earlier than 1914, could Greece gain the western coast of Anatolia and Eastern Thrace, including Constantinople and keep it until the present day?

DirtyCommie

Very difficult. Could get either E Thrace and Constantinople or Ionian coast but both.

If you have a markedly more successful Gallipoli but the Turkish junta fights on. The change to regain [long] lost lands prompts Greece to unite behind the PM rather than the king and it commits early and heavily to the allies. Could easily see Greek and allied forces operating in Anatolia and Greece ending up in control of the area.

However the problem here is Bulgaria. Things would be a lot easier if it went allied in response to Gallipoli but if so I can't see it giving up E Thrace while if Russia still collapsed Constantinople might be up for grabs but the two would probably contest it.

Alternatively you have a later POD with the post-war clashes between Greece and Turkey being a bit less one-sided. Possibly still with more massacres by the Turks or some other factor prompting support for Greece. Then when Ataturk insists on religious division and expulsion of minorities E Thrace and Constantinople ends up in Greek hands. They would probably be in a very vulnerable position between Turkey and Bulgaria and likely to lose it if a WWII equivalent. Although they might get them back again after the war if on the winning side.

However very, very difficult to see Greece get both areas and keeping them. You not only need a serious melt-down of the Ottoman empire at least as bad as OTL but some way to keep Bulgaria out of play for all of it. Then keep that position for about a century.

Steve
 
This also seems hard with a POD in/after 1914, but might be doable with one in/after 1900. For one thing, Bulgaria could be less of a factor.
 
Its very very difficult. Greece isn't even the greatest power in the Balkans, and the Ottoman empire is much stronger then it. The problem with them gaining Constantinople in World War One is that its too valuable of a prize to give to a small power like the Greeks. And actually getting the territory is only the start of Greeces troubles. They will be in a bad defensive position, with terrain favouring Turkish offensives sweeping down from the platau of Anatolia, and the land they would be annexing would be mostly Turkish anyway. In short, its like the operation sealion of the Balkans.
 
The only place Greece could realistically annex is Eastern Thrace, however both Constantinople and Western Anatolia will stay (even with the most wankish POD) out of it's grasp.

Specifically with Constantinople no one besides Greece was actually interested in Greece annexing it, while Western Anatolia was just too bad of a defensive position to be realistically annex.
 
OTL was already a Greek wank. The Greeks prior to the Greco-Turkish war had been given most of Thrace, save for Constantinople which was occupied by the Western Allied Powers, and Ionia which is more than enough to qualify for Western Anatolia. Anything more is too unreasonably difficult for the Greeks to hold onto.
 
Greece being able to hold on to any part of Anatolia long term with even a semi-viable Turkish state existing is pretty much a pipe dream. And as far as Constantinople goes with a POD in 1914 your probably going to have to kill off Constantine I and his sons to make way for his brother Prince George who has pull in both Paris and St Petersburg combine that with having Greece joining the war in 1914 and well you still looking at a fairly long shot in my opinion.
 

archaeogeek

Banned
Greece being able to hold on to any part of Anatolia long term with even a semi-viable Turkish state existing is pretty much a pipe dream. And as far as Constantinople goes with a POD in 1914 your probably going to have to kill off Constantine I and his sons to make way for his brother Prince George who has pull in both Paris and St Petersburg combine that with having Greece joining the war in 1914 and well you still looking at a fairly long shot in my opinion.

You're still looking at 1/3 of greece that is turkish, on top of already large bulgarian and albanian minorities.
 
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