WI: Great Wall of Ancient Egypt?
And they'd do what all land-based invaders do, force and pay for ships to be built at villages and clobber together enough to sail for 40miles. Then walk
Raunchel
Banned
That is my line.
The wall would be hard and expensive to build and maintain, even as a very long-term project. And as others said, it would only get passed around by sea, it would be too short to be a real obstacle.
Whilst the idea is fun, the better approach would really be to create strong, well supplied fortifications at near every oasis in the Sinai desert - both to act as a fantastic support for Egyptian Logistics, but as outposts to seriously hamper any attempt to invade via the desert. Combine it with strong naval bases on both coasts of the Sinai, and you create a much better system for defense. Not only do armies have to starve out fortifications in a burning desert to even invade Egypt, but the counter attacks are lightning fast - and any attempt at a naval invasion is hampered by regular patrols. - The biggest threat is still a prepared invasion from the Arabian coast, but patrols of the Red Sea should be able to provide advanced warning. This combined "Desert Fortress" and "Naval Alertness" would be the best approach IMO - and I'd be surprised if it wasn't already practiced.
The best "Great Walls of Egypt" would actually be the equivalent of sea chain towers. Couple of strong forts either side of the river, with counterweights for strong chains (and maybe a bridge if you're feeling ambitious), enemy fleet comes along - raise the chain and the fleet will have to either
1) Disembark and siege the fortification
2) Disembark and try to portage around the fortification - under constant harassment by the fortification
3) Try to... run the chain. I doubt it would be possible though.
4) Give up and go home
The best "Great Walls of Egypt" would actually be the equivalent of sea chain towers. Couple of strong forts either side of the river, with counterweights for strong chains (and maybe a bridge if you're feeling ambitious), enemy fleet comes along - raise the chain and the fleet will have to either
1) Disembark and siege the fortification
2) Disembark and try to portage around the fortification - under constant harassment by the fortification
3) Try to... run the chain. I doubt it would be possible though.
4) Give up and go home
To be fair, Egypt had not that much trouble with nomadic invasions from Asia (just really twice succesful cases in five millennia of documented history: Hyksos and -arguably- Arabs, perhaps you may want to count the Sea Peoples but that was, well, from the sea, as would later be the Roman conquest and the Crusader attempts), as opposed to big empires in Asia invading (Assyrians, Persians, Macedonians/Seleucids -repeatedly-, Ayyubids, Ottomans). The latter wouldn't be deterred by fortifications, and have in theory the option of sea attacks into the Delta.
The point is that fortification are, to quote GRR Martin, only worth the people manning them, which requires strong central authority in Egypt - and, whenever there was strong central authority in Egypt, it tended to dominate the Levant itself, so no point in fortifying the space inbetween - when that was not the case, such as during the Middle Kingdom, the border was indeed fortified.
Interestingly, in Pharaonic times the most heavily fortified border was to the south - although the purpose of those forts wasn't strategically defensive.
The point is that fortification are, to quote GRR Martin, only worth the people manning them, which requires strong central authority in Egypt - and, whenever there was strong central authority in Egypt, it tended to dominate the Levant itself, so no point in fortifying the space inbetween - when that was not the case, such as during the Middle Kingdom, the border was indeed fortified.
Interestingly, in Pharaonic times the most heavily fortified border was to the south - although the purpose of those forts wasn't strategically defensive.
ben0628
Banned
Wouldn't it be easier and just as effective to dig a moat/canal and post forts/watch towers ever five miles or something?
As for cost, who cares? This is ancient Egypt were talking about here. They liked building grand projects (more during the middle kingdom than new kingdom though).
As for threats from the sea, I believe I read somewhere that there is evidence that new kingdom Egypt was allied with the Minoans.
As for cost, who cares? This is ancient Egypt were talking about here. They liked building grand projects (more during the middle kingdom than new kingdom though).
As for threats from the sea, I believe I read somewhere that there is evidence that new kingdom Egypt was allied with the Minoans.
Oh goddammit.
Anyways, I agree with the opinion that a wall would simply be circumnavigated or brought down eventually. The materials used for building the wall could be put to much better use elsewhere.
I admittedly don't remember an exact source, but from what I've read about the invasions of Egypt by Perdiccas and Antigonus, it sounds a lot like Ptolemy had a string of fortresses set up to the entrance to Egypt, while using a strong navy to protect from sea invasion.Can I have a source? I'd love to (cannibalize) it for my TL
Raunchel
Banned
I recall the same, but don't remember the source. I should really start listing that stuff, even if this is just a hobby.
Napoleonrules
Banned
Expensive? Pssht! We're going to make the Israelites pay for the wall! They keep crossing the Sinai and taking hard working Egyptian slaves jobs building Pi-Ramses and other cities; even becoming cup bearer and vizier to the Pharoah. Egypt first.
Well, the only practical invasion route was along the coast, so it would make more sense to build a fort or series of forts along the coastal road. Pelusium on the eastern edge of the Delta was quite heavily fortified IOTL, so maybe they could strengthen its fortifications even more.
If you want a Great Wall of Egypt, it might be better to have it along the western Delta. There was lots of Libyan raiding/migration/infiltration from this direction, which was kind of similar to the situation vis-à-vis the Chinese and Hsiung-Nu.
"We're going to build a wall around the Delta, and we're going to make Libya pay for it!"