WI: Great Britain and Prussia goes to war against Russia and Austria in 1788

TFSmith121

Banned
Anything in particular worth fighting about?

What happens if Great Britain and Prussia joins Sweden and the Ottoman Empire in its war against Russia and Austria in 1788?

Anything in particular worth fighting about?

The British, after all, are all of five years out of the last big war...and that one didn't end particularly well for them.

Might be sort of a rebuilding season for Team Britain.;)

Best,
 
Anything in particular worth fighting about?

Both countries were worried about growing Russian and Austrian power at the expense of the Ottoman Empire, and were worried that Russia and Austria were winning too many battles against the Ottoman Empire and expanding too much too fast in the Russian-Turkish and Austro-Turkish wars respectively that were going on at the time.
 

TFSmith121

Banned
Maybe - seems like kind of a slender reed.

Both countries were worried about growing Russian and Austrian power at the expense of the Ottoman Empire, and were worried that Russia and Austria were winning too many battles against the Ottoman Empire and expanding too much too fast in the Russian-Turkish and Austro-Turkish wars respectively that were going on at the time.

Maybe - seems like kind of a slender reed.

Prussia being at war simultaneously against Austria and Russia appears to be a situation the Prussians would give their eyeteeth to avoid, while Britain's ability to deploy and sustain an expeditionary force worth the name in Central or Eastern Europe seems equally, um, challlenging.

Best,
 
Ottoman territory sounds far-fetched at that point. Britain wouldn't really be that interested, and Prussia would almost certainly not want to become Britain's catspaw, no matter how much money there was in it. They remember the Seven Years' War too well.

Perhaps it goes the other way around: due to some enormous failure of diplomacy, Prussia finds itself at war with Austria and Russia (maybe over Poland? Austria sees an opening to push through its Bavarian claims against the League of Princes by drawing in Russia with a promise of Prussia's Polish interest and territories?) Britain, at this point alienated from both Russia and Austria, props up Prussia for fear of losing its continental sword. France points and laughs.
 

raharris1973

Gone Fishin'
Donor
Monthly Donor
due to some enormous failure of diplomacy, Prussia finds itself at war with Austria and Russia (maybe over Poland? Austria sees an opening to push through its Bavarian claims against the League of Princes by drawing in Russia with a promise of Prussia's Polish interest and territories?) Britain, at this point alienated from both Russia and Austria, props up Prussia for fear of losing its continental sword. France points and laughs.

This way is probably the best way forward.

Although it does beg the question, could Austria have pulled Russia onto its side with promises of Polish booty during the Bavarian Succession War (or "Potato War") of the 1770s.

Prussia held the same amount of Poland (West Prussia) in both 1777 and 1788.

For that matter, could Prussia have gotten Russian support against Austria in the 1770s by promising Polish (Galician) booty.
 
This way is probably the best way forward.

Although it does beg the question, could Austria have pulled Russia onto its side with promises of Polish booty during the Bavarian Succession War (or "Potato War") of the 1770s.

Prussia held the same amount of Poland (West Prussia) in both 1777 and 1788.

For that matter, could Prussia have gotten Russian support against Austria in the 1770s by promising Polish (Galician) booty.

I don't think so. Russia was not really all that interested in getting entangled in German problems at the time. But of all the options I can see, decisionmakers in St Petersburg deciding this is in their interest is the least implausible.
 
Ottoman territory sounds far-fetched at that point. Britain wouldn't really be that interested, and Prussia would almost certainly not want to become Britain's catspaw, no matter how much money there was in it. They remember the Seven Years' War too well.

Perhaps it goes the other way around: due to some enormous failure of diplomacy, Prussia finds itself at war with Austria and Russia (maybe over Poland? Austria sees an opening to push through its Bavarian claims against the League of Princes by drawing in Russia with a promise of Prussia's Polish interest and territories?) Britain, at this point alienated from both Russia and Austria, props up Prussia for fear of losing its continental sword. France points and laughs.

Then Austria pulls France in by supporting a French-backed candidate for the Austrian Netherlands, which they have been trying to get rid of in exchange for help in acquiring Bavaria.

Then Britain gets pulled in to keep the French from controlling Belgium....
 
This would be interesting once the Estates-General meeting goes down hill next year. Is the threat of revolutionary France enough to stop the hostilities?
 
This would be interesting once the Estates-General meeting goes down hill next year. Is the threat of revolutionary France enough to stop the hostilities?

Nothing unifies a country like a war. So if the French government support Austria and Russia (seven years war 2.0?) they could attempt to wip up patriotic feeling against Britain and Prussia. If they can pull off a victory, it could fully stave off the revolution (if Louis XVI doesn't copy his grandfather and return any conquered territory).
 
I can see no scenario where Britain would become involved.

In OTL, Prussia was largely responsible for the continued existance of the Ottoman Empire, at least its European portions, in this era.

By diplomacy, treachery and threats (perhaps empty), Prussia bluffed both Russia and Austria into retreating.

What would occur if they'd call Prussia's bluff?

Britain would not help Prussia, perhaps ever again after the 7 Years War.

I doubt France would do much more than pledge neutrality to his brother-in-law the Emperor.

I'm not sure where Prussia's armies stood at this time, if they had fallen back from the rapier they were in 1756.

If Prussia loses, then Ottoman Europe is gone. The ottoman had lost every significant engagement for the past two decades to European powers. Much of the Balkans were rebelling off and on.

It it possible that the Bosphorus might be the new border.
 
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