WI Goths were completely destroyed in 395 AD?

In 395 the Goths raided Greece but they were trapped between the armies of ERE in Thrace and the armies of WRE under Stilicho in Illyricum...
Stilicho was ready to crush the Visigoths but he was ordered by Arcadius to return to WRE while ERE troops were ordered not to harm the Visigoths...Stilicho complied with the ordes and withdrew his forces allowing Visigoths to escape... (Arcadius was influenced by Rufinus who had struck a secret deal with Alaric in order to protect his estates in Thrace and Thessaly...)
WI Stilicho disobeyed the orders or pretended that they arrived too late and had annihilated the Visigoths then? How is that altering History?
If the Visigoths are annihilated does the WRE gains some years more?
 
My guess is that if Visigoths were destroyed then Sack of Rome is butterflied away WRE isnot financially ruined Hispania remains a Roman Province and as a result WRE could hire mercenaries to protect the Gaulish borders from invasions while using their Legions to capture lost grounds...
 
Without the goths the germanic invaders most powerful in this ATL would be suevs and vandals (and naturally the asiatic hordes of the huns), it is probable that the Western Roman Empire could long far more than in OTL.

In fact in OTL even with the goths the Western Roman Empire was in the way of restaure its power under the command of Constantius III, a very able general, his sudden death provoked with the activities of germanic peoples the final decadence of Western Roman Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantius_III

The interesting would be if caused by this POD, the butterflies permit Constantius III not dies at 421.

Without goths and with Constantius III living Western Roman Empire could last a lot more than in OTL
 
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No children walking around today wearing all black, with white face makeup, black lipstick and black eye shadow writing bad poetry about how much their lives suck since their parents won't buy them that new BMW for their 16th birthday.

Torqumada
 
No children walking around today wearing all black, with white face makeup, black lipstick and black eye shadow writing bad poetry about how much their lives suck since their parents won't buy them that new BMW for their 16th birthday.

Torqumada

And Torq wins the thread! :D
 
No children walking around today wearing all black, with white face makeup, black lipstick and black eye shadow writing bad poetry about how much their lives suck since their parents won't buy them that new BMW for their 16th birthday.

Torqumada

And Torq wins the thread! :D

Yeah. Like there's never been a goths/Goths joke before :rolleyes:

And by the way, those described are called Emos these days. Goths are middle-aged punks who never grew up and started wearing top hats with canes.
 
The Huns Rule

Whether we like the Goths or not (I for one like them a great deal, they just have very bad press), the Goths were instrumental in stopping the Hunnish incursion into Western Europe in 451. Only when Theodoric and Visgoths join Aetius were they actually beaten.

It may seem counter intuitive, but, in my opinion, without the Goths it is likely that Rome would have actually fallen sooner. It is also possible that the Huns would have established a stabile kingdom in the West.
 

Susano

Banned
How were the Goths helpful in that? And what had they to do with the Huns Realms stability? The Hunnish Realm bropke apart as soon as Atilla died and everybody started to fight everybody. The absence of Visigoths will hardly make any difference there...
 
How were the Goths helpful in that? And what had they to do with the Huns Realms stability? The Hunnish Realm bropke apart as soon as Atilla died and everybody started to fight everybody. The absence of Visigoths will hardly make any difference there...


True, the Hunnish Realm broke up after Atilla's death, but Atilla is said to have died only after he lost a decisive battle to Aetius and his Goth allies and retreated to the East. If he had won, beaten Aetius, it is possible, perhaps even likely, that the Huns would have been able to found a kingdom based on a Hunnish ruling class assisted by their barbarian allies.
 

Susano

Banned
True, the Hunnish Realm broke up after Atilla's death, but Atilla is said to have died only after he lost a decisive battle to Aetius and his Goth allies and retreated to the East. If he had won, beaten Aetius, it is possible, perhaps even likely, that the Huns would have been able to found a kingdom based on a Hunnish ruling class assisted by their barbarian allies.

Ah, true, it were the visigoths, not the Ostrogoths on the Roman Side. Somehow I got this mixed up. Still, that things fell apart so soon after Attilas death shows quite a lot even for ATLs, IMO. Atilla simply was foremost a warlord, and he acted and ruled as such. He really was more concerned with conquering and fighting then statebuilding. If Atilla had won, then hed foremost have plundered more territories, and then used Gaul as base to plunder even more territories. I dont see how anything systematic would have changed.

OTOH, while the Romans couldnt ally with the Visigoths anymiore (after theyre destroyed), they might be less weakened to deal with the Huns.
 
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