WI: Germany won the Battle of the Bulge

Here's a start: Panzer Lehr ignores Kjellstrom in Wiltz and plows single mindedly into Bastogne's as yet unprepared defenses...
 
Here's a start: Panzer Lehr ignores Kjellstrom in Wiltz and plows single mindedly into Bastogne's as yet unprepared defenses...

Lehr's flanks and supply lines get nailed by Patton's 4th and 6th AD a few days later, resulting in the German spearheads being completely cut off as they neared Antwerp.

organized German resistance crumbles, and the Allies advance farther and faster into Germany, and while near the outskirts of Berlin, it's announced that Hitler died, and Goering accepts unconditional surrender on February 1st.
 
Lehr's flanks and supply lines get nailed by Patton's 4th and 6th AD a few days later, resulting in the German spearheads being completely cut off as they neared Antwerp.

organized German resistance crumbles, and the Allies advance farther and faster into Germany, and while near the outskirts of Berlin, it's announced that Hitler died, and Goering accepts unconditional surrender on February 1st.
I said it was a start...I didn't say it would work...
 
They wouldn't. They'd stop more or less at their occupation zone borders. Why take more casualties to then hand over that land to the Westerners.

Weren’t the occupation zones agreed at Yalta? If the WAllies are toiling after having had to clear out Antwerp again then there’s a decent chance that the Soviet’s might get a bigger zone, at least provisionally.

There’s also a lot of goodies to be gained by rolling all the way to the Weser or the Rhine even if they have to withdraw shortly after; industrial machinery, scientists, war criminals, etc.
 
Weren’t the occupation zones agreed at Yalta? If the WAllies are toiling after having had to clear out Antwerp again then there’s a decent chance that the Soviet’s might get a bigger zone, at least provisionally.

There’s also a lot of goodies to be gained by rolling all the way to the Weser or the Rhine even if they have to withdraw shortly after; industrial machinery, scientists, war criminals, etc.

Thats how the US got all the V-2 goodies at Mittelwerke at Nordhausen before the Soviets took over
 
Weren’t the occupation zones agreed at Yalta? If the WAllies are toiling after having had to clear out Antwerp again then there’s a decent chance that the Soviet’s might get a bigger zone, at least provisionally.

There’s also a lot of goodies to be gained by rolling all the way to the Weser or the Rhine even if they have to withdraw shortly after; industrial machinery, scientists, war criminals, etc.

Sure. It's up to the definition of "conquering" then. If you give to it a temporary sense, it's one thing.
 
Weren’t the occupation zones agreed at Yalta? If the WAllies are toiling after having had to clear out Antwerp again then there’s a decent chance that the Soviet’s might get a bigger zone, at least provisionally.

There’s also a lot of goodies to be gained by rolling all the way to the Weser or the Rhine even if they have to withdraw shortly after; industrial machinery, scientists, war criminals, etc.
Should somehow the Germans managed to recapture Antwerp they would be in a city surrounded by Allied soldiers instead of being stopped and push back by Allied soldiers, and their generals who said what Patton did could not be done we had Complete Air superiority and unless the troops from Germany had a death wish they look around and say yeah there's all these nice supplies but we're all going to die trying to get to them and they're not going to get us out of Antwerp so really I don't see it being that much different. I'm not sure how much Lend-Lease was going to Russia at the time but if the Allies had any indication that Russia was going to take land that was not in their Zone they could cut back Lend Lease due to technical problems they had air superiority and they have a lot of Allied officers from the generals to the privates who just got humiliated I think fighting would probably be more fierce than it was in OTL. Remember fat man was just around the corner with his friend little boy and Stalin knew it so if he gets a greedy and tries to take too much of the area outside his Zone he runs the risk of having the first a bomb used on a city. I think generally American and British it's the only two I have any knowledge of are decent soldiers they aren't Revenge seeking monsters that some other countries have not that ours are perfect but you're going to have a lot of pissed off people because of the surprise in the Germans are back at Antwerp that it's going to be a far determined angry soldiers who do take them 0n.
 
IIRC, the US Army had been holding prox-fused shells in reserve for fear of the Germans copying them. When the Bulge turned nasty, they were deployed to ghastly effect on the German infantry and materiel...
 
Should somehow the Germans managed to recapture Antwerp they would be in a city surrounded by Allied soldiers instead of being stopped and push back by Allied soldiers, and their generals who said what Patton did could not be done we had Complete Air superiority and unless the troops from Germany had a death wish they look around and say yeah there's all these nice supplies but we're all going to die trying to get to them and they're not going to get us out of Antwerp so really I don't see it being that much different

There were German troops who held on to French ports throughout the rest of the war, the troops who somehow managed to take Antwerp aren’t likely to give up just because their position is hopeless. It’s certainly possible but working in the confines of a scenario where they’ve somehow managed to retake Antwerp they’re unlikely to just give up. Clearing out the port, again, would likely be a strenuous effort that would take its toll on the limited resources the WAllies are now forced to work with.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
If by some miracle the Germans are able to "win" the battle and capture Antwerp, the Americans from the south and the British from the north will then simply attack down the base of the corridor, cut them off, and destroy them. Germany will collapse earlier than IOTL.

From a purely strategic point of view, the Germans should not have launched a massive attack at all, but a series of limited counter offensives to secure the best possible defensive position, then transfer as much as they could back to the east. Even if successful, though, this would only have delayed the inevitable until July or August.
 
May actually work to the Germans detriment. All the troops that go forward getting cut off when the weather clears.
 

Deleted member 1487

May actually work to the Germans detriment. All the troops that go forward getting cut off when the weather clears.
Yeah it was an insane plan in the first place. The best way to 'win' is to stick to the small envelopment put forth as an alternative by IIRC von Rundstedt, which was doable. Of course winning means losing strategically when the Soviets are able to advance further and the Allies less far.
 
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