WI: Germany wins Battle of Britain

"Hail Britiania, Britiainia rules the waves,

Britons never Never NEVER shall be slaves!"

That is why the BOB and OSL are both losing options.

Say what ever else you want about the British people but do NOT call them cowards and do NOT point a gun at them and believe for a minute that they will do anything other than wrest it from your hands and kill you with it.

At America's heart we are their projeny and we are very much our mother's Daughter.

Go Britian, Go U.S.A.

Oh. My. God.

I never would have believed such a blatant nationalistic statement could be made on this site with absolutely nobody calling it out...
 
Michele, just how are one German battleship and two heavy cruisers going to force a battle with the RN, let alone win such a battle?:confused:
 
Michele, just how are one German battleship and two heavy cruisers going to force a battle with the RN, let alone win such a battle?:confused:

Exactly. That's the point. It was a reductio ad absurdum. The same questions exactly can be asked about the Luftwaffe. How is the Luftwaffe able to force a battle to the finish with the RAF, and how are they going to win that assuming they can force it?

In no way, is the answer to all four questions.
 
wiking said:
Remember too that it took the USAAF and RAF 3 years with their massive production, training, numerical, supply, and later technological superiority to achieve daylight superiority over Germany and even this only with German distracted by a multifront ground and air war.
That was to achieve superiority over all of Germany for an extended period. What Germany needed was temporary & much more geographically limited.
wiking said:
the attrition war heavily favors the British, not least because of Radar.

In short a daylight air superiority battle is just not winnable for the Luftwaffe,
If the aim is to destroy the RAF, yes. If the aim is to achieve temporary local superiority, no.
wiking said:
nor is Sea Lion remotely potentially successful.
Michele said:
Sorry, this has been discussed to utter boredom. I'm not going to rehash it again here. I think you know where you can find the information.
You seem to believe I'm saying it would succeed. I never suggested otherwise than failure. I merely mean, given Seelöwe is to actually be carried out (leaving off it's prima facie lunatic:rolleyes:), destruction of the RAF proper is unnecessary.
King Augeas said:
Needed to do what?
Necessary to execute the notional invasion--given anybody is actually nutty enough to try it.:rolleyes:
Michele said:
This hits the usual limitations. "Intensive", you say. This has to be daylight operations
Does it? Following bombers back was impossible? Marking them on a map so the intruders can find them again is impossible?
Michele said:
From those safe bases, the British bombers can thus take off every night and head for their own targets. Unlike air bases, their targets are easy to find even at night, and close-packed (they are the ports of departure and the beachheads). Remember that without even dedicating an all-out effort to that, Bomber and Coastal Command sank or damaged around 12% of the German flotilla in its own ports.
Which is about the probable failure of Seelöwe, & AFAIK, that's not in doubt.:rolleyes:

What I was talking about was an effort to interfere with Britain bombing the hell out of German cities, not preventing attacks on the notional invasion beaches...
 
Does it? Following bombers back was impossible? Marking them on a map so the intruders can find them again is impossible?

Highly unlikely. All combatants had maps, with targets much bigger than an airbase marked on it, i.e. cities. And with all of that, in 1940 (and heck, later than that) they managed to miss those big targets, cities, altogether. They often bombed the wrong city, and sometimes the wrong city in another country. As late as 1945, the USAAF managed to bomb the wrong cities in nominal daylight (well, through cloud cover using radar targeting).

Knowing that a given air base on your map is a Bomber Command base (as opposed to a FAA training base, a Coastal Command base, a decommissioned airstrip etc.) is already a nice thing, that the German intel sometimes wasn't up to.

Finding it in darkness is yet another hurdle, largely unlikely to be jumped over.
 
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