WI: Germany to Be Nuked First, What Are the Targets?

If the atomic bomb had been readied say in the summer of 1944, how would the Allies choose to target Germany and the Axis?
 
I assume the same logic would follow as we saw OTL in Japan: they would want to pick cities that both held some kind of importance but had also been relatively untouched by bombing to better measure the destructive capabilities.

If Potsdam and Nuremberg were chosen, I wonder where the synonymous conference and trials would have been held? I could see the Soviets pushing for Berlin.
 

CalBear

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It is very likely that Dresden would become a target, for much the same reason it was subjected to degree of over-bombing IOTL. It would provide the Soviets an object lesson on WAllied air power.
 
It is very likely that Dresden would become a target, for much the same reason it was subjected to degree of over-bombing IOTL. It would provide the Soviets an object lesson on WAllied air power.

Was Dresden really bombed only to provide the Soviets a lessen? Is there any evidence to support this?
 
It is very likely that Dresden would become a target, for much the same reason it was subjected to degree of over-bombing IOTL. It would provide the Soviets an object lesson on WAllied air power.

Most likely given in the WAllied political leaderships mind assuming this is end of 1944/early 45 the war against Germany and Japan is about to end quickly with the new super bomb in hand. They will be looking for a target to shock Germany and to send a message to Stalin who has an intact army.
 
It is very likely that Dresden would become a target, for much the same reason it was subjected to degree of over-bombing IOTL. It would provide the Soviets an object lesson on WAllied air power.

I'm not sure it would be an obvious target : One of the IOTL reason was because of the local plane production (that really suffered a blow afterwards, less in numbers than great loss of quality). A conventional air-bombing as IOTL is still more likely, IMO, to happen in order to break Nazi air control as much as possible.

Nuremberg or a place in North Sea may be more "symbolic targets", as I don't really see how something in eastern Germany having a more important charge as Berlin that I doubt would be targeted would it be only for having someone to surrender quickly.
 

CalBear

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Was Dresden really bombed only to provide the Soviets a lessen? Is there any evidence to support this?

The official reason for targeting the City was a Soviet request to provide support Red Army operations. There were a number of legitimate targets in the city, numerous factories and smaller manufacturing site that produced materials for the Wehrmacht. There is also considerable anecdotal evidence that it was seen as an opportunity to remind the Soviets that the Anglo/Americans were not to be underestimated (this exists to the degree that it even appears in the World at War TV programs).

The bombing, however, was controversial almost from the moment it started, with the politicians scurrying away from it as rapidly as they could. It was perhaps the most severe case of over-bombing in the entire war. The City absorbed four separate raids in a two day period (originally scheduled for five raids, but weather scrubbed the daylight strike on the 13th), starting with a two heavy RAF incendiary strikes on February 13/14 (same night, raids spaced three hours apart, the better to review BDA and to catch first responders in the second wave) against the urban area followed by two day light raids on the marshalling yards on the 14th and 15th (63 aircraft from the daylight raid on the 14th got lost and bombed Prague by mistake). The 8th AF returned twice more, in March and then in April to pound the yards again. As a result of the almost unbelievable damage, and the decision to allow reporters unusually free access, there was some fairly serious negative response among the Allied civilian population. Whatever secondary reasons that existed were rapidly buried by a series of "investigations" that concluded that the attacks were militarily sound. Any other considerations and memos are still buried in the archives and will remain there for at least five more years (75 years after the attacks).

That they Combined Bomber Offensive literally devoted all of Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, for two days, to hitting one set of targets, over and over, was, to say the least, unusual.
 
From the RAF briefing notes to the squadrons which attacked Dresden:

In the midst of winter wit refugees pouring westwards and troops to be rested, roofs are at a premium... Dresden has developed into an industrial city of first-class importance... its multiplicity of telephones and rail facilities is of major value for controlling the defence of that part of the front now threatened by Marshal Konev's offensive... The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front... and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do.
 
Bonus symbolism points for being the home of Krupp. Maybe nuke the start of the Rhine and let the radiation spread down to the factory towns

i believe that Potsdam and Nuremburg would have been the symbolic choices if symbolism is needed. due to their relationship to two generations of German warmongers. After all thats why the war crimes were in Nuremburg. Berlin, ironically, was a pretty anti nazi city.
 
The official reason for targeting the City was a Soviet request to provide support Red Army operations. There were a number of legitimate targets in the city, numerous factories and smaller manufacturing site that produced materials for the Wehrmacht. There is also considerable anecdotal evidence that it was seen as an opportunity to remind the Soviets that the Anglo/Americans were not to be underestimated (this exists to the degree that it even appears in the World at War TV programs).

The bombing, however, was controversial almost from the moment it started, with the politicians scurrying away from it as rapidly as they could. It was perhaps the most severe case of over-bombing in the entire war. The City absorbed four separate raids in a two day period (originally scheduled for five raids, but weather scrubbed the daylight strike on the 13th), starting with a two heavy RAF incendiary strikes on February 13/14 (same night, raids spaced three hours apart, the better to review BDA and to catch first responders in the second wave) against the urban area followed by two day light raids on the marshalling yards on the 14th and 15th (63 aircraft from the daylight raid on the 14th got lost and bombed Prague by mistake). The 8th AF returned twice more, in March and then in April to pound the yards again. As a result of the almost unbelievable damage, and the decision to allow reporters unusually free access, there was some fairly serious negative response among the Allied civilian population. Whatever secondary reasons that existed were rapidly buried by a series of "investigations" that concluded that the attacks were militarily sound. Any other considerations and memos are still buried in the archives and will remain there for at least five more years (75 years after the attacks).

That they Combined Bomber Offensive literally devoted all of Bomber Command and the 8th Air Force, for two days, to hitting one set of targets, over and over, was, to say the least, unusual.

I visited Dresden last December. They are still rebuilding and repairing from the raid. STILL. Not as in there's still broken rubble and buildings, but restoration of those buildings that survived and recreation of those lost is still on going.
 
Until April 1945, Dresden held the distinction that Hiroshima held in Japan of largest unbombed city. There's a theory that this isn't coincidence... or then again, it was deep in Germany and hard to reach, so maybe not.

I find it unlikely that the target would be selected on purely symbolic grounds; something of strategic value would be preferred. But a target would probably be selected that would demonstrate the atomic bomb to its' full effect and to an audience capable of appreciating the significance.

That means an industrial city or transport nexus, preferably one that was relatively undamaged. Dresden ticks the right boxes, as does Chemnitz; there are doubtless others. Berlin is of course possible on the grounds of 'screw it, just go for the capital', but may not actually have the desired effect. Especially if Hitler isn't in Berlin at the time. Depending on timing, leaving Hitler but killing Himmler, Goering et al might actually do the Nazis a favour. :eek:
 
Until April 1945, Dresden held the distinction that Hiroshima held in Japan of largest unbombed city. There's a theory that this isn't coincidence... or then again, it was deep in Germany and hard to reach, so maybe not.

I find it unlikely that the target would be selected on purely symbolic grounds; something of strategic value would be preferred. But a target would probably be selected that would demonstrate the atomic bomb to its' full effect and to an audience capable of appreciating the significance.

That means an industrial city or transport nexus, preferably one that was relatively undamaged. Dresden ticks the right boxes, as does Chemnitz; there are doubtless others. Berlin is of course possible on the grounds of 'screw it, just go for the capital', but may not actually have the desired effect. Especially if Hitler isn't in Berlin at the time. Depending on timing, leaving Hitler but killing Himmler, Goering et al might actually do the Nazis a favour. :eek:

Plus I don't think the Americans were really big on decapitating the German government - they wanted a single person whom they could receive a surrender from, rather than a collection of fragmented militias.

teg
 
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