WI: Germany revives the HRE after a victory in WWI

Maybe the title sounds a bit crazy, but I do explain:

Let's consider the most favorable scenario for a German victory in WWI: both France and Italy are military defeated, the US do not intervene, UK wants peace with Germany without many conditions, A-H collapses in many new entities which would depend on Germany for sure, Brest-Litovsk is at least partially implemented in the East etc etc.

After that, Germany has a lot of peripheral new entities ready for being puppetized. Instead of implementing those artificial projects of Mitteleuropa confederations and so, Willy might be tempted to recover the old title of Holy Roman-German Emperor and unite all these entities under the symbol of the Imperial crown.

Unlike the title of German Emperor, which is quite restricted to the German nation, the title of HRGE could bring legitimacy over dominions in Central/Eastern Europe which were either part or had strong ties with the historical HRE for centuries.

In fact, the reality would be the same as expected IOTL: a German core with lot of vassalized entities (Duchy of Poland, Kingdom of Hungary etc.), but with a diferent symbolic formula which could bring more historical legitimacy to this new entity.
 
I think I will write a chronology/quick TL for this idea, I think it is pretty original (and maybe close to ASB, but anyway) :D
 
If the Central Powers win so easily, why does Austria-Hungary collapse ?

I think they could be separate events.

IOTL the fall of the Central Powers triggered the final collapse of A-H BUT an eventual victory does not guarantee that A-H keeps united. Before WWI A-H had already problems to keep its integrity, specially with Czechs; probably A-H would have collapsed even if WWI would not have happened, with the difference that it could have done in a different way (maybe with gradual independence) and surely not creating neither Czechoslovakia nor Yugoslavia, and the Austrian and Hungarian cores not that reduced.
 
If the Central Powers win so easily, why does Austria-Hungary collapse ?
An old and stale meme, really... only in a very late CP win, 19 or 20, i'd say AH divorced, but it divorces on its own lines, the OTL borders are not sustainable, you'd have a powerful Hungsry and Austria, Czrchia would just be the city of Prague with some surrounding area and parts of Moravia, most likrly enveloped by Austra, Hungary will let nothing seceede, probably just regional autonomy for Croatia and Slobakia, and both will retain access to the sea.
 

Deleted member 94680

The HRE is the Austrian Empire by another name. Far too Catholic and non-German for the Prussians to stomach.

The Hohenzollerns became German Emperors as leaders of kleinduestchland for this very reason. The HRE is grossduestchland on steroids.
 
The HRE is the Austrian Empire by another name. Far too Catholic and non-German for the Prussians to stomach.

The Hohenzollerns became German Emperors as leaders of kleinduestchland for this very reason. The HRE is grossduestchland on steroids.

Of course it would be a new HRE revamped for the Prussian interests, nothing about Catholic symbology etc etc.

It would be like the Italian fascists tried to do with the 'new Roman Empire' some of them tried to revive, adapted to the insterests of the Italian fascio.
 
This would be a proposal of 'revived HRE':

- Kingdom of Prussia (core, including minor entities like Lippe, Waldeck, Anhalt etc. and new territories incorporated from France and Belgium)
- Kingdom of Bavaria
- Kingdom of Saxony
- Kingdom of Swabia (merge of Baden, Württemberg and Alsace)
- Kingdom of Hungary (including Slovakia, Transylvania, Banat and Vojvodina)
- Kingdom of Croatia (including Bosnia-Herzegovina)
- Grand Duchy of Austria (including Slovenia and new territories incorporated from Italy, like the lost provinces of Milan and Venice)
- Grand Duchy of Hesse
- Grand Duchy of Lithuania
- Grand Duchy of Mecklenburg (merge of both)
- Grand Duchy of Oldenburg
- Grand Duchy of Luxemburg (including Belgian Lux.)
- Duchy of Poland (Congress Poland + Galizia)
- Duchy of Estonia-Livonia (current Estonia + Latvia)
- Principality of Bohemia-Moravia
- Thuringian Confederation
- Free Cities like Hamburg, Lübeck, Bremen, Frankfurt, Cracow, Venice etc.

If the experiment is successful, in the following decade other candidates could be:

- Kingdom of the Netherlands (with Belgian Flanders)
- Kingdom of Denmark
- Swiss Confederation
 
If the experiment is successful, in the following decade other candidates could be:

- Kingdom of the Netherlands (with Belgian Flanders)
- Kingdom of Denmark
- Swiss Confederation
None of those three would willingly join.
 

Deleted member 94680

Of course it would be a new HRE revamped for the Prussian interests, nothing about Catholic symbology etc etc.

It would be like the Italian fascists tried to do with the 'new Roman Empire' some of them tried to revive, adapted to the insterests of the Italian fascio.

That makes no sense. The whole point of the “Prussian Empire” is avoiding what you’re trying to make happen.

OTL, the Prussian led kleindeutschland took territories and expanded their influence. At no point did they look to incorporate them into Germany (or Prussia) proper. Poland was to be a client Kingdom, the United Baltic Duchy was possibly going to be in personal Union with Wilhelm II, but a separate state nonetheless. There were no proposals, no matter how bleak the situation, to incorporate Austrian Kronlands into the Empire.

You need a PoD that completely changes the German mindset (pre-1866 at least I’d say) to even make this slightly viable. Then you’d struggle to make it believable that the rest of the North German Confederation would be carried along with this megalomaniacal alt-Prussia.
 

Deleted member 94680

- Kingdom of Swabia (merge of Baden, Württemberg and Alsace)

What the actual fuck?

If the experiment is successful,

lol “Successful”

in the following decade other candidates could be:

- Kingdom of the Netherlands (with Belgian Flanders)
- Kingdom of Denmark
- Swiss Confederation

By “candidates” you mean forcibly incorporated at the point of a bayonet after a long drawn out War?
 
None of those three would willingly join.

I didn't say nothing about willingness.

That makes no sense. The whole point of the “Prussian Empire” is avoiding what you’re trying to make happen.

OTL, the Prussian led kleindeutschland took territories and expanded their influence. At no point did they look to incorporate them into Germany (or Prussia) proper. Poland was to be a client Kingdom, the United Baltic Duchy was possibly going to be in personal Union with Wilhelm II, but a separate state nonetheless. There were no proposals, no matter how bleak the situation, to incorporate Austrian Kronlands into the Empire.

I am not trying to say that they would incorporate all these entities in 'the German Empire' or Prussia. It's just another way to hold that Mitteleuropa commonwealth. Is there any difference a personal union between Germany and the Baltic Duchy to this scenario of two separate states with same Emperor?

What the actual fuck?

Old Swabia featured those three territories.

By “candidates” you mean forcibly incorporated at the point of a bayonet after a long drawn out War?

They can choose, scare or death XD
 

Deleted member 94680

Is there any difference a personal union between Germany and the Baltic Duchy to this scenario of two separate states with same Emperor?

Yes. It’s also important to note it’s a Personal Union of the UBD and the Crown of Prussia (Wilhelm II) not the German Empire.

A Personal Union merely share the same monarch whilst being for all intents and purposes separate nations.

By the “separate states with the same Emperor” I assume you mean states of the German Empire? In that case, yes they are different as they are members of a Federal Union where the Emperor is Head of State.
 
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Of course, a revived HRE would have more sense if the base would be the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, because the Habsburgs were the last dynasty holding that title, they were Catholic and they were more open to cultural and ethnical diversity in their dominions.

The main problem is that I can't imagine a scenario where, given that the Central Powers achieve a major victory in WWI, the A-H Empire somehow acts as a core for Mitteleuropa project and not Germany. So A-H has to keep their integrity and moreover Germany has to suffer some major setback that causes to fall in Austrian orbit and not the opposite.

But I'm open to ideas.
 
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