What might happen to history if after world war one Germany is broken down into the nations it was made up of before 1871? Might ww2 have been avoided? Would the country be too vulnerable to a communist invasion? We it stay divided.
Germany wasn't made up of nations but of the realms of whoever happened to call himself the local sovereign. The only regions that have a national identity other than German are Bavaria, maybe Württemberg and parts of Prussia.What might happen to history if after world war one Germany is broken down into the nations it was made up of before 1871?
Depends on when and how Germany is reunited. Hitler is stuck in Bavaria, which will be the most reluctant to join. In the best case this means that even if he does come to power, he cannot do much harm. In the worst case he takes Bavaria in a successful Beer hall Putsch and proceeds to gain support in the other Germanies.Might ww2 have been avoided?
If Prussia and Poland settle their differences, they are strong enough. OTOH Poland might act greedier towards a smaller Prussia and Prussia might be more pissed off.Would the country be too vulnerable to a communist invasion? We it stay divided.
Smaller doesn't matter, as in the 18th century a larger Poland can, and will, get beaten up even by a smaller geographical Prussia. Especially since everyone else around Poland hates that Poland is agressive (IOTL they invaded Lituania, White Russia (Belarus), Russia, Ukraine, and disputes with Czechoslovakia which was democratic while Poland was not).Germany wasn't made up of nations but of the realms of whoever happened to call himself the local sovereign. The only regions that have a national identity other than German are Bavaria, maybe Württemberg and parts of Prussia.
You may try North German confederation (renamed to "German confederation"), Bavaria, and a West German State called Rheinland or Hannover. The people of Baden and Württemberg may decide by referendum which one to join. That way the borders would at least be not entirely artificial.
Depends on when and how Germany is reunited. Hitler is stuck in Bavaria, which will be the most reluctant to join. In the best case this means that even if he does come to power, he cannot do much harm. In the worst case he takes Bavaria in a successful Beer hall Putsch and proceeds to gain support in the other Germanies.
WW2 is avoided when the Nazis don't rule Prussia by the end of the Great Depression the dey is saved - no matter when or if Germany is reunited.
If Prussia and Poland settle their differences, they are strong enough. OTOH Poland might act greedier towards a smaller Prussia and Prussia might be more pissed off.
Poland was beaten up by Prussia and Austria and Russia. Prussia didn't accomplish that on her own let alone manage to defend herself against potential aggressions from Russia/USSR as well.Smaller doesn't matter, as in the 18th century a larger Poland can, and will, get beaten up even by a smaller geographical Prussia. Especially since everyone else around Poland hates that Poland is agressive (IOTL they invaded Lituania, White Russia (Belarus), Russia, Ukraine, and disputes with Czechoslovakia which was democratic while Poland was not).
That's not late, since the modern nation state concept didn't become common much earlier.I also disagree that Germany wasn't made up of nations. Then Liechtenstein, Andorra, and Monaco aren't nations either; and Switzerland didn't become a nation-state at the Treaty of Westphalia but instead in the 1800s.
Wishful thinking that history proved wrongMetternich said Italy was a geographical concept, not a nation.
There are some nations that were constructed by states, but there also plenty examples were nations (de-)constructed states: Prussia could't tell the Poles that they were Germans, USSR couldn't tell the Lithunians that they were Sowjet citizens or the East Germans that they weren't West Germans, etc. pp.Nations are something that states construct to have the loyalty and obeyance of the public, a state is not what a nation constructs to protect it. That's the problem with some of these AH.com threads about "ideal borders" and in real geopolitics regarding self-determination (thanks alot President Wilson).
Germany unites - yes. But why come back for round two? Germany accomplished the revision of the OTL peace treaty without a war.Germany reunifies literally the moment France's back is turned and then dares her to come back for round two.
Depends on when and how Germany is reunited. Hitler is stuck in Bavaria.
HOLY SH --Germany wasn't made up of nations but of the realms of whoever happened to call himself the local sovereign. The only regions that have a national identity other than German are Bavaria, maybe Württemberg and parts of Prussia. ....
How would the Entente "enforce" this, given the to be expected even and much bigger "opposition" against the ToV IOTL (which was VERY short of NOT being "accepted" by the germans) ? Would they be willing - and able - to occupy the whole of Germany ? ... embroiling in a lot of "unrests" and uprisings to be squahed with military force ? ... for a substantial time ?
I just want to point out that Metternich was correct at the time he said that. There was serious hostility to any kind of Italian unity within Italy- mostly from the elites of the different realms, unsurprisingly. It was neither wishful thinking since Metternich wanted to create an Italian analogue to the German Confederation, nor was he proven wrong by history, but rather by changing times and Italian unity becoming a popular idea. Saying that he was proven wrong by history, to me, implies historical predeterminism.Wishful thinking that history proved wrong
I just want to point out that Metternich was correct at the time he said that. There was serious hostility to any kind of Italian unity within Italy- mostly from the elites of the different realms, unsurprisingly.
Break Germany into small states and any unification movement will have to win power in every German state.
As if the Germans did not have a unified framework for a single nation in the past. Once the unification train starts going then there would not be any squabbling over the type of movement in different regions but create a pan-German narrative, which is only natural.
The German Empire had more to it than just "Prussian domination". We have OTL to show us how little these provincial movements came up to while the national movement is always capable of taking them all under one umbrella, readily coming together in a unification bid.They had a model of Prussian domination.
The German Empire had more to it than just "Prussian domination". We have OTL to show us how little these provincial movements came up to while the national movement is always capable of taking them all under one umbrella, readily coming together in a unification bid.