WI: Germany rejecting the Versailles Dictate in 1922

What if Germany had rejected the entire Versailles Treaty in 1922, due to the economic recession and the French occupation of the Rhineland?

Germany certainly frustrated the French during their occupation of the Saar and Rheinland in 1922, to overheat the economy with a Hyperinflation, forcing the French to withdraw from the German lands a year later, as there was nothing to take anymore in terms of cash. What would have happened, if the German government in Weimar also had considered the French occupation a breach in the Versailles Treaty and therefore was legitemate to cancel the dictate entirely?

The USA already supplied cash for German Recovery, as it wanted the get the Germans wealthy enough to buy their export goods and therefore create a market for US products.

The UK too had no serious remorse against the Germans and considered the nation's punishment in the Versailles Treaty a bit too harsh. It certainly was not prepared to support the French, who were at this point considered more likely to be an enemy, than a demiliterized Germany.

The USSR was itself still too much in internal turmoil to bother about foreign politics, as was Italy, where Mussolini was on his march to Rome.

Who would act and how?
 
You mean if Germany renounced all the military and naval limitations, declared the intention to invade Poland/Belgium/Denmark for territories lost and so forth? Nothing very good for Germany.
 
I don't think the world is in much of a position to stop the Germans. As you said, most of the allies were tired of war and would be unwilling to begin another war to stop Germany--the British may even see a re-powered Germany as a bulwark against communism. Most. The sole exception being France. France would be completely unwilling to see their hard earned victory overturned, and may launch an invasion of Germany. The question is, how successful would they be?
 

Deleted member 1487

Not may, will. They invaded Germany in the 1920's over their non-payment of reparations, occupying the Ruhr and executing resistors. They can and will do worse if they need to and the French people will support it. The question is if the British would, which I think they will so long as they don't have to send soldiers. OTOH, they don't want to see the further aggrandizement of France either, but I don't know enough about internal British politics at the time to really gauge if it was hostile enough to prevent their former ally from wrecking Germany.
 
Perhaps a Little earlier ....

Has anyone worked through the issues of what might have happened if the German delegation refused to sign away the future at Versailles. Publishing the language of the Treaty in the newspapers and walking out of Paris.

Lots of Freikorps around and a hostile populace.

Any thoughts?

Berniep2
 
BernieP2, the war lasts another year and Germany could well end as a nation. The Allies might suggest that, for example, a separate Bavaria could get much more lenient terms.:p

Since Germany has a collapsing army and a few hundred thousand in the Friekorps and France will have Belgium, Poland and other allies behind her, the fighting won't last long and God help the German people if the French choose to handle resistance the way Germany handled it in Belgium.
 
Quick collapse

IIRC, German military planning assumed that all the Reichswehr could do was some delaying actions back to the river Elbe and maybe consolidate there in a defensive position. The strategy would be to wait for international pressure on France to reach a political solution.

My guess is that the French advance would almost purely depend on the French will to advance and on the time-window until the war might become unpopular in France itself.

There would be irregular action by Germans in French occupied Germany, and reprisals would be harsh. The German economy would collapse facing a full-fledged war. It would be an ugly situation.

France would enforce the separation of at least Bavaria and the Rheinland, creating puppet-regimes on the way to Berlin.

France's only ally might be Poland. They would not be overly active but gain some more border regions they were denied at Versailles: the rest of Upper Silesia and maybe Masuren (southern half of East Prussia).

I cannot see Britain taking up arms against France so soon after 1918. They will protest, they will try to mediate, but that's it. America would do even less.

The only solution for Germany to make this game interesting is to undergo a Communist revolution and to invite the exhausted but numerous red army for assistance.
 
The only solution for Germany to make this game interesting is to undergo a Communist revolution and to invite the exhausted but numerous red army for assistance.

The revolution is optional; remember that there was military cooperation between
Germany and the Soviet Union in the late 20s and early 30s,
support by the staunchly right-wing German generals.
This happened although a Communist revolution in Germany was a realistic menace (see 1919).
The two outcasts of Europe, shunned hostilely by all other nations, and fearing or suffering military assaults,
had formed a partnership of convenience, to either one's benefit.
The political preparation was the Treaty of Rapallo in 23.
The Soviet union gained access to German technological and organizational proficiency, while Russia provided a hiding place and (partially) manpower for military projects.
There was even a small German air fleet deployed in Russia! (In the early 30s, that is.)


Of course you can weave plenty of AH out of this cooperation ;)

Let that cooperation be started earlier and become deeper than IOTL.
In the case of a German rebellion against Versailles and a French foray into Germany,
then the German troups still do not stand a change against tenfold French superiority in sheer number (counting official troups only).
But Germany could perfectly protract that conflict using its Russian ressources,
to its own benefit as pointed out before.

But then, that would come at a high price of casualties and devastation in Germany, right after the desasterous Great War.
Plus the relationship to the Soviets cannot possibly be that strong as early as in 22.
 
BernieP2, the war lasts another year and Germany could well end as a nation. The Allies might suggest that, for example, a separate Bavaria could get much more lenient terms.:p

Of course. Worked perfectly in Austria, that method.

Nations, once brought into existence, very rarely just "end".
 

Susano

Banned
Of course. Worked perfectly in Austria, that method.

Well, it would be a bit more difficult if Germany gets totally re-splintered again. In that case, though, some states will certainly fall to communism, and at least Britain wont like that (France most likely wont give a damn).

Oh, and Grimm, this wouldnt be an end to the German nation. County != nation ;)
 
Well, it would be a bit more difficult if Germany gets totally re-splintered again. In that case, though, some states will certainly fall to communism, and at least Britain wont like that (France most likely wont give a damn).

Oh, I dunno about that. The French right hated Communism. How do you think they'd feel about the hated Germans becoming hated Communists.

Anyway, Germany collapses is the obvious answer.
 
Well, it would be a bit more difficult if Germany gets totally re-splintered again. In that case, though, some states will certainly fall to communism, and at least Britain wont like that (France most likely wont give a damn).

Oh, and Grimm, this wouldnt be an end to the German nation. County != nation ;)

I suspect he knows. By "that method" I meant his apparent belief that national identity just shatters when you drop it and the offer some bits of it "more lenient peace terms", whatever those are.

Anyway, yes, Germany would implode, and might go the way of Russia. The "warlords piece together pseudo-ideological forces from the fragments of a defeated army" thing. The "commies!" thing is less certain.
 

Susano

Banned
I suspect he knows. By "that method" I meant his apparent belief that national identity just shatters when you drop it and the offer some bits of it "more lenient peace terms", whatever those are.
Its possible of course. Do look at Austria - after WW2, that is, not after WW1. But of course that had lots of external circumstances working in its favour.

Anyway, yes, Germany would implode, and might go the way of Russia. The "warlords piece together pseudo-ideological forces from the fragments of a defeated army" thing. The "commies!" thing is less certain.
I guess with so many Freikorps running arround (and even if they wanted the allie scouldnt disarm them all) warlordism becomes bleakly likely. But I do think one or two of those factions might be communist. Saxony and maybe Thuringia seem likely for that development...

And Faeelinw hat I meant is that it seems to me that some parts of Germany going communist would be an acceptable price for a splintered Germany to the French.
 
I think people are exaggerating just how laid back Britain would be if Germany genuinely said "you know what, sod Versailles we will do what we want". If a real war broke out between France and Germany Britain would assuredly intervene on the side of the French. There would certainly be concerns about building up French power and pretensions, but Britain didn't fight the last war for nothing.
 
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